Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

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fradistapista2
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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby fradistapista2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:24 pm

Stefan_MNE wrote:An absolutely legitimate complaint. If they allowed the return leg to be played in the middle of the week, than I don't see a reason why Oltchim wouldn't host their match in Bucarest on the 4 or 5 of April, for example.


They could have asked for it. Most likely the management of Valcea don't know the rules that they could ask for it. It's their fault.



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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Ettikeee:) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:31 pm

mikh wrote:@Esik: absolutely NO! ETO will travel back to Hungary AFTER the second leg, not between the matches. So you can see how this is a very frustrating situation for Vâlcea, especially when ETO could've played in any other sports-hall in Hungary, including their own.


If we will travel back to Hungary after the second leg, then how will we be at home to play the second match in Hungary? :shock:

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Anicia Juliana » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:35 pm

Stefan_MNE wrote:An absolutely legitimate complaint. If they allowed the return leg to be played in the middle of the week, than I don't see a reason why Oltchim wouldn't host their match in Bucarest on the 4 or 5 of April, for example.

No, no. Oltchim could not and would not play in Bucarest on the 4 or 5 as you suggest. First, for logistic reasons: Romexpo is an exhibition pavilion which would take time to turn into a handball court, then dismantle and rebuild into a concert hall for the week-end. This would take 2-3 days in a western country, I can't say how long it would take in Romania :). Secondly, they wouldn't want to play earlier than initially scheduled because they still have their internal "unsolved issues" and the management has fixed ideas about preparation needed :roll:.

So, basically, Oltchim would have wanted to switch the homecourt right. If that is not an option for Gyor, they only want the matches to be played during week-ends. IMO, the people in the management are retarded, they should have seen it coming, should have been more flexible and should have sent their terms to EHF earlier. Maybe a 1st leg on the 4th/5th - but in Valcea - and then, the same thing - match on a work day - in Hungary.
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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Esik » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:41 pm

eduardsson wrote:Gyor travels by plane, which means that they leave on the 6th and they reach Gyor in 2 hours after they leave.
Oltchim travels by BUS. !


Now this is one of the questions you should ask from the Valcea front office. And this is not a valid point in this argument.

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Bob Rock » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:43 pm

eduardsson wrote:
Bob Rock wrote:Oh, come on, not everything in the world is a great conspiracy th. :roll:
Between Valcea and Veszprém it is 2 times, or even 3 times less distance than some other distances we have seen during MR or during group stage.
What is a big deal? Both teams will travel back and forth same distance, so what? At the end of the day, a better one will win final ticket, as simple as that!


No, it is NOT the same thing!
Gyor travels by plane, which means that they leave on the 6th and they reach Gyor in 2 hours after they leave.
Oltchim travels by BUS. It takes at least 15 hours to reach Veszprem, plus all the discomfort that implies travelling by this mean of transportation.
Furthermore, the supporters cannot take TWO days off from their jobs; Thursday or Even Wednesday to get to Hungary and Thursday to Friday to get back home.
What's most disturbing is the fact that EHF and Gyor's management did NOT ask for Oltchim's opinion on that, as if EHF was some sort of Hungarian corporation/institution or called it whatever, I'd call it Mafia.
On a final note, bear in mind that Oltchim has asked EHF for a similar change of date previously, since the Romexpo is occupied on the 6th. Guess what?! EHF WHOLEHEARTEDLY refused the idea.
You don't need to have a vast handbalistic knowledge to see that things are not fair and they head in one way, only. If you ethic-lessly, neutrally, analyze the situation you'd easily notice it is very wrong. I don't wanna imagine what would have happened if the decisions were against ETO or the Hungarians. The beginning of the Third World War, they say!



Oh, boy, mafia??? Are you exaggerating a bit? And are you 100 % sure that Gyor girls will travel by plane, how can you know it for sure?
BTW, @ mikh what do you mean by: 'ETO will travel back to Hungary AFTER the second leg, not between the matches'
They need to return home from Valcea game? Between the matches if they plan to make it for the second leg in Veszprem? Otherwise, they would lose it by official result 0:10?

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Esik » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:44 pm

mikh wrote:@Esik: absolutely NO! ETO will travel back to Hungary AFTER the second leg, not between the matches. So you can see how this is a very frustrating situation for Vâlcea, especially when ETO could've played in any other sports-hall in Hungary, including their own.


OK, what did I miss? Veszprém is not in Hungary? Or Győr will use some Star Trek tools to appear in Valcea for the first game, then in Veszprém for the second, then back to Valcea again for an unkown reason..and travel back home using the usual transit? :)

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby eduardsson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:45 pm

Esik wrote:
eduardsson wrote:Gyor travels by plane, which means that they leave on the 6th and they reach Gyor in 2 hours after they leave.
Oltchim travels by BUS. !


Now this is one of the questions you should ask from the Valcea front office. And this is not a valid point in this argument.


I totally agree with your point, generally.
But in THIS VERY context it is very important to mention.
If you talk about ''valid points'', then I don't see the validity in Gyor changing the dates when you have many other alternatives. I perceive it as a whim!

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby eduardsson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:49 pm

Bob Rock wrote:
eduardsson wrote:
Bob Rock wrote:Oh, come on, not everything in the world is a great conspiracy th. :roll:
Between Valcea and Veszprém it is 2 times, or even 3 times less distance than some other distances we have seen during MR or during group stage.
What is a big deal? Both teams will travel back and forth same distance, so what? At the end of the day, a better one will win final ticket, as simple as that!


No, it is NOT the same thing!
Gyor travels by plane, which means that they leave on the 6th and they reach Gyor in 2 hours after they leave.
Oltchim travels by BUS. It takes at least 15 hours to reach Veszprem, plus all the discomfort that implies travelling by this mean of transportation.
Furthermore, the supporters cannot take TWO days off from their jobs; Thursday or Even Wednesday to get to Hungary and Thursday to Friday to get back home.
What's most disturbing is the fact that EHF and Gyor's management did NOT ask for Oltchim's opinion on that, as if EHF was some sort of Hungarian corporation/institution or called it whatever, I'd call it Mafia.
On a final note, bear in mind that Oltchim has asked EHF for a similar change of date previously, since the Romexpo is occupied on the 6th. Guess what?! EHF WHOLEHEARTEDLY refused the idea.
You don't need to have a vast handbalistic knowledge to see that things are not fair and they head in one way, only. If you ethic-lessly, neutrally, analyze the situation you'd easily notice it is very wrong. I don't wanna imagine what would have happened if the decisions were against ETO or the Hungarians. The beginning of the Third World War, they say!



Oh, boy, mafia??? Are you exaggerating a bit? And are you 100 % sure that Gyor girls will travel by plane, how can you know it for sure?
BTW, @ mikh what do you mean by: 'ETO will travel back to Hungary AFTER the second leg, not between the matches'
They need to return home from Valcea game? Between the matches if they plan to make it for the second leg in Veszprem? Otherwise, they would lose it by official result 0:10?



Unfortunately there are a lot of people thinking of EHF as Mafia, not only me.
Yes, they travel by plane, as they did in all away matches. Since they have the charter at their disposal, it has to be used, doesn't it?

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Esik » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm

Ettikeee:) wrote:
If we will travel back to Hungary after the second leg, then how will we be at home to play the second match in Hungary? :shock:


I have friend, he is called Harry, will send him to help you. You will recognize him easily: he has a scar on his forehead resembling a lightning. :)

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Esik » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:59 pm

eduardsson wrote:Unfortunately there are a lot of people thinking of EHF as Mafia, not only me.
Yes, they travel by plane, as they did in all away matches. Since they have the charter at their disposal, it has to be used, doesn't it?


Out of curiosity, how do you brand a team, which lures players - with promises they can not keep - to their team to create perhaps the strongest squad of a competition? Cheaters? Criminals?

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby eduardsson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:05 pm

Esik wrote:
eduardsson wrote:Unfortunately there are a lot of people thinking of EHF as Mafia, not only me.
Yes, they travel by plane, as they did in all away matches. Since they have the charter at their disposal, it has to be used, doesn't it?


Out of curiosity, how do you brand a team, which lures players - with promises they can not keep - to their team to create perhaps the strongest squad of a competition? Cheaters? Criminals?


Out of morality, how do you call a person that constantly pulls massive strings for the name of the victory?
The answer: The chief or the vice-president of the EHF Technical Refereeing Committee!

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby mikh » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:08 pm

Ettikeee:) wrote:
mikh wrote:@Esik: absolutely NO! ETO will travel back to Hungary AFTER the second leg, not between the matches. So you can see how this is a very frustrating situation for Vâlcea, especially when ETO could've played in any other sports-hall in Hungary, including their own.


If we will travel back to Hungary after the second leg, then how will we be at home to play the second match in Hungary? :shock:


Oh! You're right! Sorry! In my head the matches were taking place the other way around. In this case it's an assumed risk by ETO, if they travel by bus.

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Anicia Juliana » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:10 pm

fradistapista2 wrote:
eduardsson wrote:On a final note, bear in mind that Oltchim has asked EHF for a similar change of date previously, since the Romexpo is occupied on the 6th. Guess what?! EHF WHOLEHEARTEDLY refused the idea.

I've never read about that. Where did you post about that EHF decision?


:arrow:
Anicia Juliana wrote:So, basically, Oltchim would have wanted to switch the homecourt right.

It was confirmed by Berbecaru today in ProSport - their proposition was to play the 1st leg in Hungary and the return in Romania... That was all they could come up with.

LE: Here's the link for Berbecaru's statement in which he says what I just explained.
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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby fradistapista2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:12 pm

eduardsson wrote:I am not Hungarophob; not at all. Not agreeing with an unfair, biased decision doesn't make me HUNGAROPHOB!


This:
eduardsson wrote:I don't wanna imagine what would have happened if the decisions were against ETO or the Hungarians. The beginning of the Third World War, they say!


tells us that you are a hungarophob. You are very afraid from every Hungarian that they will start the 3rd World War for every little nothing. This is a hungarophob sentence.

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby GeorgeVeszprém » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:16 pm

eduardsson wrote:Out of morality, how do you call a person that constantly pulls massive strings for the name of the victory?
The answer: The chief or the vice-president of the EHF Technical Refereeing Committee!


You mean Dragan Nachevski? ;) /he substitute Sandor Andorka last year/

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby fradistapista2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:19 pm

Anicia Juliana wrote:
Anicia Juliana wrote:So, basically, Oltchim would have wanted to switch the homecourt right.

It was confirmed by Berbecaru today in ProSport - their proposition was to play the 1st leg in Hungary and the return in Romania... That was all they could come up with.


LOL. So basically Valcea's management wanted the EHF to declare them a group winner and Győr a group runner-up? OMG. And EHF refused to do so so EHF is a mafia. THX Juliana for the information, now I can understand what eduardsson's problem. But why on Earth didn't Oltchim's management asked the EHF to declare them the CL winner?

Sorry, but I think that Oltchim's management is one of the worst in handball history.

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Esik » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:19 pm

eduardsson wrote:Out of morality, how do you call a person that constantly pulls massive strings for the name of the victory?
The answer: The chief or the vice-president of the EHF Technical Refereeing Committee!



So you have no answer then, just empty accusations? Interesting. And speaking of morality: why wereyou stating ORV wanted to organize the game earlier and EHF refused it? ORV never asked for it. They wanted to have the second leg at home. Trying to use sport diplomacy to gain the advantge the group winners have in a bureau when they failed to get actually playing handball. But I think that is totally OK in your book.

As for the ETO: they had to play in Denmark on Monday, then travel back to Hungary for less than 2 days, then travel back to Noorway and to play on Saturday. Because the EHF said they have to. Were they happy? No. But they did it, without whining about it. But you probably missed this.:)

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Esik » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:22 pm

GeorgeVeszprém wrote:
eduardsson wrote:Out of morality, how do you call a person that constantly pulls massive strings for the name of the victory?
The answer: The chief or the vice-president of the EHF Technical Refereeing Committee!


You mean Dragan Nachevski? ;) /he substitute Sandor Andorka last year/


Big Macedonian-Hungarian conspiracy. On the ex-kometal page. How fitting.:)

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby eduardsson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:22 pm

GeorgeVeszprém wrote:
eduardsson wrote:Out of morality, how do you call a person that constantly pulls massive strings for the name of the victory?
The answer: The chief or the vice-president of the EHF Technical Refereeing Committee!


You mean Dragan Nachevski? ;) /he substitute Sandor Andorka last year/


I said chief OR vice-president.
He was the chief for so many years and we saw that. On the court!
He may be the vice president now... but he remained very influential anyway. It's just a scene play, to find the ''justification'' for these kinds of actions coming from the EHF.

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Esik » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:25 pm

eduardsson wrote:My family is half Hungarian. How on Earth could I be Hungaraphob?
That joke was meant to show your obstinacy.
I just don't like the fact you agree with this foul play or rotten trick.


Again: luring players with promises you can not keep was not a rotten trick?
Trying to gain the second leg in bureaus when you could not achieve it on the playing courts was not a rotten trick?

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby eduardsson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:27 pm

fradistapista2 wrote:
Anicia Juliana wrote:
Anicia Juliana wrote:So, basically, Oltchim would have wanted to switch the homecourt right.

It was confirmed by Berbecaru today in ProSport - their proposition was to play the 1st leg in Hungary and the return in Romania... That was all they could come up with.


LOL. So basically Valcea's management wanted the EHF to declare them a group winner and Győr a group runner-up? OMG. And EHF refused to do so so EHF is a mafia. THX Juliana for the information, now I can understand what eduardsson's problem. But why on Earth didn't Oltchim's management asked the EHF to declare them the CL winner?

Sorry, but I think that Oltchim's management is one of the worst in handball history.


The idea was presented to them after they refused to changed the date. Of course no one believed in it. Come on, who would give away the second home played at home? That's plain stupidity to even bring into discussion. And you may be right in a way: Oltchim really deserved the first place in the group, but we all know and saw the referees' ''work'' on Sunday.

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby eduardsson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:30 pm

Esik wrote:
eduardsson wrote:Out of morality, how do you call a person that constantly pulls massive strings for the name of the victory?
The answer: The chief or the vice-president of the EHF Technical Refereeing Committee!



So you have no answer then, just empty accusations? Interesting. And speaking of morality: why wereyou stating ORV wanted to organize the game earlier and EHF refused it? ORV never asked for it. They wanted to have the second leg at home. Trying to use sport diplomacy to gain the advantge the group winners have in a bureau when they failed to get actually playing handball. But I think that is totally OK in your book.

As for the ETO: they had to play in Denmark on Monday, then travel back to Hungary for less than 2 days, then travel back to Noorway and to play on Saturday. Because the EHF said they have to. Were they happy? No. But they did it, without whining about it. But you probably missed this.:)



Not that relevant comparison. We are talking about semifinals now and much stronger opponents. The semi matches basically mean the resume of the season.

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby Esik » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:41 pm

eduardsson wrote:
Not that relevant comparison. We are talking about semifinals now and much stronger opponents. The semi matches basically mean the resume of the season.



Not the same, because. Győr had to travel twice back and force.(3 travels before the second games all together)

Touch this: Valcea will travel once before the game. Győr has to travel to Romania, then back to Hungary, so in a shorter time they will travel twice. And Valce FO instead of whining should organize a plane travel. Not impossible at all. If you can afford Bulatovic, Pienau, Barbosa, etc., do not tell me youi ca not pay for 20 tickects to a neighbouring country. Unless, you have a totally incompetent bunch of people as leaders, but in this case, blame them first, not the oppenent, the EHF or a Martian invasion.

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby gergő » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:54 pm

huhh everything is clear. eduardson just red this article. :)

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Re: Champions League 2012/13 Semifinals

Postby eduardsson » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:58 pm

gergő wrote:huhh everything is clear. eduardson just red this article. :)


I am not afraid of Gyor, I am afraid of the fact that the decisive match is played away.


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