Players' naturalisation in women's handball

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Wbk » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:51 am

tavy oltchim wrote:http://www.eurohandball.com/wch/women/2017/player/522025/Olha+Vashchuk
Ex- Ukranian player RB/RW Olha Vashchuk is playing for Turkey now.

She's already listed in this topic ;-)



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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Wbk » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:12 pm

Two ABU Baku (AZE) foreign players, Russian-born Oksana OREKHOVA and Ukrainian-born Anastasiya METELSKA + also Baku's former player Russian-born Mariya RACHITELEVA (meanwhile back for Astrakhanochka Astrakhan/RUS) now compete for the Azerbaijan women's NT.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Wbk » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:51 pm

Shani Rahel LEVINKIND (ISR --> USA)

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby John » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:10 pm

Wbk wrote:Shani Rahel LEVINKIND (ISR --> USA)


Do they even know how to play handball in USA? :D

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby williamn123 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:15 pm

Wbk wrote:
Germanicus wrote:A lot of Russian born players who changed to Kazakhstan although having actually no Kazakh roots.
I expected something different but it looks so that all of these players choose the country they were born in after the collapse of SU and YU and changed to another one later.

In the 2008-2012 Olympic cycle, especially prior to the 2011 Olympic qualification and WCh, there was a massive action launched by Kazakh handball federation aimed to improve the quality of their women's NT. They naturalised a lot of Russian lower-quality players. After the action failed, many of the players stopped playing for KAZ immediately. Still none of them, except for Erokhina, played for Russia in the following period. Some others, however, continue to compete for Kazakhstan even in later years (Antonova, Volnukhina, Parfyonova, ...).


Do you know if Kazakhstan handball has any plans of relaunching af plan of naturalise Russian players again? or will they only go on with actual Kazakh players from now on? I know there is an Asian handball championship coming up soon in March 2017.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Wbk » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:50 pm

Kristina REPELEWSKA /née SVATKO/ (BLR --> POL)

Her profile on the EHF website

Her story (article-interview in Russian)

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Wbk » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:51 am

Three young (1998 and 1999) Ukrainian players decided to represent Georgia: Kateryna YESMANOVYCH, Olga SHLUKHTINA, Svitlana PETRENKO.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Wbk » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:31 pm

United States' NT goalkeeper Bryana NEWBERN added to the sub-list of players with multiple citizenship competing only for their native country.

Her story (article in French)

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Wbk » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:22 pm

Wbk wrote:United States' NT goalkeeper Bryana NEWBERN added to the sub-list of players with multiple citizenship competing only for their native country.

Her story (article in French)

One more player of the U.S. NT with a dual citizenship is right back Ashley BUTLER.

Source

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Wbk » Mon May 08, 2017 6:16 pm

Wbk wrote:Two ABU Baku (AZE) foreign players, Russian-born Oksana OREKHOVA and Ukrainian-born Anastasiya METELSKA + also Baku's former player Russian-born Mariya RACHITELEVA (meanwhile back for Astrakhanochka Astrakhan/RUS) now compete for the Azerbaijan women's NT.

Five more Russian and Ukrainian players recruited by Azerbaijan before the 2017 Islamic Solidarity Games (to start tomorrow in the Azeri capital Baku):

Anna BUROVA

Ekaterina ARTAMONOVA

Irina KLIMENKO

Alla CHERNYSHKOVA /née ZHUIKOVA/

Natalya GAIOVICH

:lol: :roll:

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby John » Mon May 29, 2017 5:44 pm

Montenegro's handball federation started an initiative against players naturalisation. The representives of the handball federation had a meeting with the president of IHF in Belgrade.
Another meeting will be held in Zagreb in June.
The main idea is that if a player played for the senior team she/he can no longer play for another country. They suggested something about younger players also but in the article it didn't say what (but i assume that a player can't choose another country if he is under 18 or something like that, this is jut my opinion, maybe it's something else)
They have support from other handball federations.
The final decision will be made in August this year.
The president of IHF suggested a closer cooperation between the handball federations of ex Yugoslavia.
There will be a meeting in Podgorica under the sponsorship of IHF.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby red and white » Mon May 29, 2017 6:02 pm

John wrote:Montenegro's handball federation started an initiative against players naturalisation. The representives of the handball federation had a meeting with the president of IHF in Belgrade.
Another meeting will be held in Zagreb in June.
The main idea is that if a player played for the senior team she/he can no longer play for another country. They suggested something about younger players also but in the article it didn't say what (but i assume that a player can't choose another country if he is under 18 or something like that, this is jut my opinion, maybe it's something else)
They have support from other handball federations.
The final decision will be made in August this year.
The president of IHF suggested a closer cooperation between the handball federations of ex Yugoslavia.
There will be a meeting in Podgorica under the sponsorship of IHF.


Nice initiative. I fully support it although it can be complex in some cases. However, there are still too many examples of player naturalisations that are motivated by results and ambitions.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Doru Delavale » Mon May 29, 2017 6:17 pm

I agree when is an industrial scale naturalization like in cases: Azerbaidjan,Quatar...

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Silviu » Mon May 29, 2017 9:16 pm

@John: interesting, but I cannot think is doable. For example, how can you legally deny to a former Spaniard (Javier Humet in this case) to be selected for the Romanian team if he lives here for many years (really lives), he speaks perfect Romanian and most important, he is a fully fledged Romanian citizen with all rights and responsibilities guaranteed by the Romanian constitution? Same goes for Gabriella Szűcs or Yulia Dumanska. Those three will challenge you in court (Romanian or any other EU court) and they are going to win.
There's a different scenario though where people actually live their lives in Spain/France/whatever but buy a property in, let's say Quatar, just to be quickly naturalized.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby OltchimRmValcea » Mon May 29, 2017 10:00 pm

@Silviu, I understand your judgement, but in that case (what John wrote), Dumanska and Humet wouldn't be affected, as they never played for their native countries. Just sayin. :D

But indeed is good initiative and I support it. Hope they'll find a legal way to introduce it.
L. Hutupan-Dinu, V. Ardean-Elisei, Cristina Neagu, O. Manea, I. Stanca, M. Jovanovic, Y. Ozel, R. Maier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyKvP63kFHw

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby John » Tue May 30, 2017 1:42 am

They did this mostly because of Qatar. Because Qatar is buying players, that have nothing to do with country, no roots, no family didn't live there before. And Qatar already stole 4 important Montenegrin players, and Montenegrin handball federation invested in them and their careers, and Qatar just came offered them money and they decide to stop playing for MNE. They tried to do that with 2 more players (main MNE players) but they refused and said that they will only play for MNE. And Poland took one of our young players that has a potential to become a big star.

I understand naturalization in these cases:
1. A player lived/s in that country for a long time and never played for the one that he was born in
2. Player has roots in that country, parents, grandparents are from that country
3. That country was part of one country and can identify as a citizen of a country that he wants to play for

But spanish, cuban, montenegrin etc playing for Qatar that i don't understand, or american playing for Montenegro, Romania or some other country, a Dane playing for Portugal, iranian playing for Hungary (just examples)
Those are the rules in football. If you play for a senior team you can't play for another country. And i thinks that is OK.

The MHF started this because Qatar will do this forever, they always naturalize players, and what's the point investing money in a player and his future when Qatar will pick the fruits of your hard work.
Just imagine if someone offered Neagu millions of euros to play for another country and she said yes, or Gorbicz or AM Hansen. It would be an arrow to the heart.

If this doesn't work Qatar will continue with this crime and get away with it.
I would seriously make a contract with the players and put a clause in the contract that says they will only play for their native country. (this as an alternative to this initiative).

I think if they vote for it, it wouldn't affect the players that already play for different countries, just that this won't be allowed in the future.
If it's doable in football it can be in handball also.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby red and white » Tue May 30, 2017 2:37 pm

John wrote:They did this mostly because of Qatar. Because Qatar is buying players, that have nothing to do with country, no roots, no family didn't live there before. And Qatar already stole 4 important Montenegrin players, and Montenegrin handball federation invested in them and their careers, and Qatar just came offered them money and they decide to stop playing for MNE. They tried to do that with 2 more players (main MNE players) but they refused and said that they will only play for MNE. And Poland took one of our young players that has a potential to become a big star.

I understand naturalization in these cases:
1. A player lived/s in that country for a long time and never played for the one that he was born in
2. Player has roots in that country, parents, grandparents are from that country
3. That country was part of one country and can identify as a citizen of a country that he wants to play for

But spanish, cuban, montenegrin etc playing for Qatar that i don't understand, or american playing for Montenegro, Romania or some other country, a Dane playing for Portugal, iranian playing for Hungary (just examples)
Those are the rules in football. If you play for a senior team you can't play for another country. And i thinks that is OK.

The MHF started this because Qatar will do this forever, they always naturalize players, and what's the point investing money in a player and his future when Qatar will pick the fruits of your hard work.
Just imagine if someone offered Neagu millions of euros to play for another country and she said yes, or Gorbicz or AM Hansen. It would be an arrow to the heart.

If this doesn't work Qatar will continue with this crime and get away with it.
I would seriously make a contract with the players and put a clause in the contract that says they will only play for their native country. (this as an alternative to this initiative).

I think if they vote for it, it wouldn't affect the players that already play for different countries, just that this won't be allowed in the future.
If it's doable in football it can be in handball also.


All the above make great sense and I fully agree. In addition to the fact that is seems unfair that one nation can use money to "steal" players from other nations (as with Qatar and Montenegro), it should also be mentioned that it is utterly unfair for the opponent teams. Club teams can buy their way to success, not national teams. When Denmark played Hungary in the EURO qualifications we struggled greatly with Iranian Jamali. He has no business playing for Hungary - I don´t care about his personal ambitions to win medals or play the Olympics. It´s not a human right to play for a top national team. Likewise it´s a shame for the Iranian national team that they can´t prosper because their best player left the team.

It appears that some nations are more inclined to let their ambitions talk and actively naturalize players, of course Qatar, but also several other nations such as Hungary, Spain (Barbosa, Zogbi de Paula) , Austria. I don´t know the background in details, but I also don´t get why Xenia Smits, who is Belgian, plays for Germany. Or Managarova for Russia.. And the list goes on.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby HB9 » Tue May 30, 2017 3:00 pm

red and white wrote:I don´t know the background in details, but I also don´t get why Xenia Smits, who is Belgian, plays for Germany.


Belgium doesn't really have a national team, so she came to Germany as a 14 year old in 2008 to fulfill her ambition to play handball on a bigger scale. In 2014 she got German citizenship - which actually took 2 years since the inital application until it went through.

She still keeps her Belgian citizenship besides it.

Both her sisters live and play in Germany. Althought they recently played for Belgium at the U19-qualifcation.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Gojira » Tue May 30, 2017 3:25 pm

red and white wrote:Or Managarova for Russia..
Managarova was born in the Soviet Union. Her parents are Russians who happened to live in the Ukrainian SSR. She told it all in an interview a few years ago.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Doru Delavale » Tue May 30, 2017 3:49 pm

Another possible solution : maximum 1 or 2 players on whole team `( from 14 or 16 players NT) with clear conditions of life and language.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby gergő » Tue May 30, 2017 4:29 pm

the meeting with moustafa has taken place yesterday.
http://rss.org.rs/#vest:9331

for me it seems (using google translator) this problem didnt affect him so much.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby vlad_impaler » Tue May 30, 2017 4:53 pm

Stop these k**f naturalisations! And Gabi Szucs is born in Romania and lived there, in Oradea, she comes from Romanians of Hungarian origin.

Dumanska moved from Ukraine to North Romania since highschool, with Humet on men I didn't agree. It's like us signing Barbosa to play for our NT.

Managarova has Russian descent I think like many Ukrainians.

They should stop with this s**t, Hungary especially too. Now Elghaoui for what? Tunisians, Iranians, Cubans, Ukrainians, Serbians and so on, how do the real Hungarians agree with this?

What the k**f is wrong with this world? Look at tennis table how they are stealing Romania every year in EC, I think we are the only top nation with no Asian at all.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby vlad_impaler » Tue May 30, 2017 4:56 pm

Rules should be clear for handball, you have played for another national team, it's like in football. You can't play anymore for another one. So bye, bye Barbosa, Managarova, Elghaoui and others (bye, bye Szucs too)...

This should be the rule number 1.

Then, to limit the number of naturalisations even if they didn't play for other NTs.

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Faith » Tue May 30, 2017 5:33 pm

Hungary especially too. Now Elghaoui for what? Tunisians, Iranians, Cubans, Ukrainians, Serbians and so on, how do the real Hungarians agree with this?


I do not agree with this kind of naturalisation. They have naturalised Elghaoui, because "we don't have usable line player". Yes, maybe that is true, but we have young talents like Szederke Sirián or Luca Dombi who could be more than great on that position, but it's easier to naturalise a player than to deal with the youngsters, give them a chance and playing time. I really don't like it. [-X
At the same time, for me there are a few exceptions. Szandra Zácsik, Mónika Kovacsicz, Viktória Oguntoye... they are all Hungarians they always were, born in Slovakia. Just like the youngsters at Győr Emma Hudák, Rita Lakatos... both born in Slovakia, but they are Hungarians. They have never played for Slovakia. This is the only exception for me.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the Hungarian players (especially on men's side) aren't happy, that they didn't get a chance because of the naturalised players (Viloski, Jamali...).

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Re: Players' naturalisation in women's handball

Postby Wbk » Tue May 30, 2017 5:42 pm

Faith wrote:Szandra Zácsik, Mónika Kovacsicz, Viktória Oguntoye... they are all Hungarians they always were, born in Slovakia. Just like the youngsters at Győr Emma Hudák, Rita Lakatos... both born in Slovakia, but they are Hungarians. They have never played for Slovakia.

Just a fact-point: Correct statement, but with exception of Oguntoye who played for Slovakia at 2007 U17 ECh ;)


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