2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby depor8 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:06 pm

Besides the refereeing in ROU – CZE 27-28 I also want to write about a small detail
Ambros Martin took the last TO too early almost 7 min before the end.
ROU had a 2 goals lead at that time but they played fearfully afterward while Czechs played better.
Telling someone don’t be nervous is usually having the exactly opposite effect.
He is not the only one responsible for the loss just that stopping of the game at that time was a mistake IMO.
Exaggerated 2 min suspensions for Romania in a clean match overall.
This made the score closer than deserved and when the equalizing came Romania trembled and Czech prevailed.



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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby catalin82 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:14 pm

The Rou Cech game was lost by habbit of some of our girls that thinks is enough to have Neagu scoring and other just to defend.
But they diddnt do anything, no offence and no shooting...this is 50%

THe 25% is Ambros, it seems he dosent know the mentality of the girls and didnt work for that.the motivation was low

25 % The are the referres ..shamefull, nothing less...if this should looked like the female handball.. no thank you

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby kleber » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:37 pm

Gojira wrote:
kleber wrote:Russia should be happy already with the last 8 achievement as in 2011 and 2015.
asian style of handball does fit russian style.

korea deserved to win today,somehow russia escape.....

What's your problem? That was a very good result for Russia, considering Kalinina's stupidity and the quality of the opponent. Korea played very good handball but there were quite a few excellent performances on the Russian side too: Vyakhireva, Makeeva, Vedekhina.


my problem?korea is not a top 8 team in the world.....they lost by 8 against serbia.

russiia will go now as underdog against norway.
Portugal is in the euro 2008,finaly!!!!!

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby Gojira » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:17 pm

kleber wrote:
Gojira wrote:
kleber wrote:Russia should be happy already with the last 8 achievement as in 2011 and 2015.
asian style of handball does fit russian style.

korea deserved to win today,somehow russia escape.....

What's your problem? That was a very good result for Russia, considering Kalinina's stupidity and the quality of the opponent. Korea played very good handball but there were quite a few excellent performances on the Russian side too: Vyakhireva, Makeeva, Vedekhina.


my problem?korea is not a top 8 team in the world.....they lost by 8 against serbia.

russiia will go now as underdog against norway.

I see no problem in this.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby Scheersberg » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:17 pm

So this is after some exciting games the way we proceed to the 1/4 final.
Image

Out for Romania, for me a surprise, Russia - South-Korea after ET victory for Russia. It 's apparently difficult to adept to the Asian why of open most of the time 4-2 defense. Holland had the same problems with Japan also ET and finally 26-24 for Holland. Where normally the wings are a problem for Holland this time Malenstein and Smeets scored in total 10 points. So far the Orange Ladies could only impress me against Germany.
Easy win of Norway against Spain.

SF prediction? I stick to my earlier prediction:
Scheersberg wrote:
Before the tournament I thought Norway, Russia/(Denmark?), France and Holland would be in the SF.
Now after the group phase I expect it will be Denmark, France, Holland and Norway.
Final? France against the winner of Norway - Holland!


Romania, cu placere, mulţumesc mult ;), Holland - Romania would be close and interesting, Tsjech should be a lot easier for Holland.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby eduardsson » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:28 pm

Scheersberg wrote:So this is after some exciting games the way we proceed to the 1/4 final.
Image

Out for Romania, for me a surprise, Russia - South-Korea after ET victory for Russia. It 's apparently difficult to adept to the Asian why of open most of the time 4-2 defense. Holland had the same problems with Japan also ET and finally 26-24 for Holland. Where normally the wings are a problem for Holland this time Malenstein and Smeets scored in total 10 points. So far the Orange Ladies could only impress me against Germany.
Easy win of Norway against Spain.

SF prediction? I stick to my earlier prediction:
Scheersberg wrote:
Before the tournament I thought Norway, Russia/(Denmark?), France and Holland would be in the SF.
Now after the group phase I expect it will be Denmark, France, Holland and Norway.
Final? France against the winner of Norway - Holland!


Romania, cu placere, mulţumesc mult ;), Holland - Romania would be close and interesting, Tsjech should be a lot easier for Holland.



Yes. Thank your dear Germanic brothers, who massacred the game like their forefathers did not long ago.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby Scheersberg » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:30 am

eduardsson wrote:Yes. Thank your dear Germanic brothers, who massacred the game like their forefathers did not long ago.

Just do not understand your report:
- Germanic brothers: who are dear Germanic brothers?
- Massacring the game? Please give some examples, who did sacrify which game?
- "like their forefathers did not long ago." Which forefathers do you mean and when has the handball game been sacrified and by whom?

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby meteo » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:45 am

I think the refs are meant because they punish the romanian defense properly everytime... ;)
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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby swarthofole » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:56 am

meteo wrote:I think the refs are meant because they punish the romanian defense properly everytime... ;)

The problem is not they were punishing properly the Romanian defense. The problem is they treated differently the same act (or they punished only one team to be more clear :?: ). And some of the decisions were literally hilarious (like 2 min for Udristioiu in the first half ](*,) ).
This is not an excuse for losing the +4 gap though (and for that mediocre play Romania displayed). And there will always be bad losers on every forum. ;)
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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby HB9 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:05 am

Hergeirsson complains about the organisers because Norway have to move from Leipzig to Magdeburg for the quarter final. That's only a 1 1/2 hour journey. :roll:

He seems to forget that it wasn't any different in DK 2015 when they had to go to Kolding from Frederikshavn: a 3 1/2 hour journey. And Serbia 2013 where they also had to travel 1+ hour to Belgrade.

I can't be arsed to go any further back in time, but I am sure it wasn't much different in other years as well.

*whinge* *whinge* :roll:

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby mikh » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:18 am

meteo wrote:I think the refs are meant because they punish the romanian defense properly everytime... ;)


@meteo, you cannot be serious about this one?
I can go through the pain of rewatching the match and point to you phase by phase the fact that they judged the game differently. I am not saying it was on purpose, but you cannot say Romania were butchers and Czechs were saints. Both team had the same intensity in defence, but only Romania got punished. Why is that? Maybe IHF can explain why the level of refereeing is so bad at this WCh and why it generally keeps getting worse.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby meteo » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:19 am

swarthofole wrote:
meteo wrote:I think the refs are meant because they punish the romanian defense properly everytime... ;)

The problem is not they were punishing properly the Romanian defense. The problem is they treated differently the same act (or they punished only one team to be more clear :?: ). And some of the decisions were literally hilarious (like 2 min for Udristioiu in the first half ](*,) ).
This is not an excuse for losing the +4 gap though (and for that mediocre play Romania displayed). And there will always be bad losers on every forum. ;)


I'm not overall satisfied with their judging but some of the aspects seem to be ref's line of IHF - for instance if we talk about the wings fouls. I've seen already before that "standing defense players" were punished if the wing player jumps into the goal area and gets contact. I'm not sure if we talk about the same situation now, but I think that is IHF advise. ;)
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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby eduardsson » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:20 am

Scheersberg wrote:
eduardsson wrote:Yes. Thank your dear Germanic brothers, who massacred the game like their forefathers did not long ago.

Just do not understand your report:
- Germanic brothers: who are dear Germanic brothers?
- Massacring the game? Please give some examples, who did sacrify which game?
- "like their forefathers did not long ago." Which forefathers do you mean and when has the handball game been sacrified and by whom?



Also - let us not forget that if it wasn't for the referees your ugly orange team would have been beaten by the fantastic team of Japan. How can you sleep at night knowing 2 people destroyed the work of the years of such a team? Typical Westerner attitude.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby mikh » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:21 am

HB9 wrote:Hergeirsson complains about the organisers because Norway have to move from Leipzig to Magdeburg for the quarter final. That's only a 1 1/2 hour journey. :roll:


It happened because they lost to Sweden. First placed teams (or those defeating them) are staying put. Will he even want to go to Hamburg for the final weekend, if they make it there? :)

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby meteo » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:28 am

oh if we talk in that way than there is no need to discussion. It maybe "unique" for you, but only because other refs are not judging bad defense every time like it should be according to the rulebook... Czech Republic may have one decisive advantage. They have more players who know the ref's line - interesting fact: Geiger, Pintea and Buceschi played in Bundesliga too and could have known...
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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby mikh » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:40 am

meteo wrote:It maybe "unique" for you, but only because other refs are not judging bad defense every time like it should be according to the rulebook...


If OTHER refs don't do it, maybe THESE 2 refs were out of line, no?
One funny example, Romania's last attack, Neagu goes 1-1 against Czech #10 and gets pulled from behind. No sanction.
For exactly the same thing, at 48:51, Buceschi got a 2 mins suspension.
Mind you, this is the last minute, Romania is 1 goal and 1 player down and eventually they equalise. Then they concede the losing goal due to being... one man down! This is only one instance.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby mikh » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:59 am

meteo wrote:
swarthofole wrote:(like 2 min for Udristioiu in the first half ](*,) ).
This is not an excuse for losing the +4 gap though (and for that mediocre play Romania displayed). And there will always be bad losers on every forum. ;)


I'm not overall satisfied with their judging but some of the aspects seem to be ref's line of IHF - for instance if we talk about the wings fouls. I've seen already before that "standing defense players" were punished if the wing player jumps into the goal area and gets contact. I'm not sure if we talk about the same situation now, but I think that is IHF advise. ;)


I think he is thinking about Udristoiu's foul at 16:55, when there is barely any contact between the 2 players and the Czech wing pretends to be hit.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby max » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:04 am

This referee situation is indeed very strange, and may I say very bad for the female handball.

Didn't watch Rom-Cze except for last minutes, so dont know much about that match.

But I refuse to watch matches with the 2 DK ref's. I simply get embarrassed over their performance...

Danish Handball Federation have 6 ref-pairs for international matches. And the one picked for this event are clearly at the bottom of the ranking. Only reason I see for the choosing is the "female aspect" ?

This is a WCh. and maybe you cant get the best refs out there, but why pick them from 3.-4.-5. row ?
Last edited by max on Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby swarthofole » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:11 am

meteo wrote:
swarthofole wrote:
meteo wrote:I think the refs are meant because they punish the romanian defense properly everytime... ;)

The problem is not they were punishing properly the Romanian defense. The problem is they treated differently the same act (or they punished only one team to be more clear :?: ). And some of the decisions were literally hilarious (like 2 min for Udristioiu in the first half ](*,) ).
This is not an excuse for losing the +4 gap though (and for that mediocre play Romania displayed). And there will always be bad losers on every forum. ;)


I'm not overall satisfied with their judging but some of the aspects seem to be ref's line of IHF - for instance if we talk about the wings fouls. I've seen already before that "standing defense players" were punished if the wing player jumps into the goal area and gets contact. I'm not sure if we talk about the same situation now, but I think that is IHF advise. ;)


so they say we should not defend and let the shooting players even if we are not moving. and eventually get out of the trajectory because someone is shooting or tries shooting.
there is no point in this anyway. I have my opinion and you/ ihf have yours, we don't need to agree on this one. and beside that I consider Romania a troubled team and if we would have had a really good team we would have prevailed to this Czech team. and this is my last comment on the refs matter.
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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby mikh » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 am

max wrote:This referee situation is indeed very strange, and may I say very bad for the female handball.

Danish Handball Federation have 6 ref-pairs for international matches. And the one picked for this event are clearly at the bottom of the ranking. Only reason I see for the choosing is the "female aspect" ?

This is a WCh. and maybe you cant the best refs out there, but why pick them from 3.-4.-5. row ?


Great point! Summarises the state of women's handball and how much IHF cares for it.
It's a pity coming at a time when teams like Brazil, Netherlands, Angola and Japan are doing so much effort to develop the game and playing their part in making it a worldwide sport.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby meteo » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:17 pm

swarthofole wrote:
meteo wrote:
swarthofole wrote:The problem is not they were punishing properly the Romanian defense. The problem is they treated differently the same act (or they punished only one team to be more clear :?: ). And some of the decisions were literally hilarious (like 2 min for Udristioiu in the first half ](*,) ).
This is not an excuse for losing the +4 gap though (and for that mediocre play Romania displayed). And there will always be bad losers on every forum. ;)


I'm not overall satisfied with their judging but some of the aspects seem to be ref's line of IHF - for instance if we talk about the wings fouls. I've seen already before that "standing defense players" were punished if the wing player jumps into the goal area and gets contact. I'm not sure if we talk about the same situation now, but I think that is IHF advise. ;)


so they say we should not defend and let the shooting players even if we are not moving. and eventually get out of the trajectory because someone is shooting or tries shooting.
there is no point in this anyway. I have my opinion and you/ ihf have yours, we don't need to agree on this one. and beside that I consider Romania a troubled team and if we would have had a really good team we would have prevailed to this Czech team. and this is my last comment on the refs matter.


I'm not on this topic with IHF but we have to take into account that this wasn't a "german refs line" but a line that was seen in several matches before. Players/Teams have to adapt to such situations otherwise they can't be succesful. That's it.

By the way: I like the way how Pintea takes responsibility, she is a great sports person.
http://www.gsp.ro/sporturi/handbal/plan ... 27900.html
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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby swarthofole » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:31 pm

meteo wrote:
By the way: I like the way how Pintea takes responsibility, she is a great sports person.
http://www.gsp.ro/sporturi/handbal/plan ... 27900.html


this is exactly how it should be. after all, they played the most important part. she missed some good opportunities and of course she took a standing. but obviously she can not be considered with the main responsibility here.
AM should have stepped in, but he preferred to hide around the luck, the North Korean missiles and Neil Armstrong's not being on the moon stuff, when he should have prepared that game properly. ](*,)
this guy is so pathetic, I start to hate him so much.
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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby mikh » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:00 pm

Sorry, I don't enjoy this talk about refs, but I also can't agree with your conclusions @meteo.

Romania got on average 3 suspensions per match (3+4+3+2+4). Yesterday they got 10! Highest in the competition so far!
Can you honestly say they were the most brutal team in the competition, by far, yesterday evening?
And again, if that's the line of the refs, fine. But let it be for both teams. It's not about the "german refs" or "kiribati refs", it's about the refs from last night which took the majority of bad decisions against one team, added to the context of bad refereeing throughout the competition.

And of course players are the main actors in the game, coaches as well... but we cannot pretend refs are not a factor in a result. Especially in handball, in which refereeing is so subjective and can lean the balance on one side or another. Sports is about being better than your opponent and improving yourself; sometimes in handball it seems you have to better two additional guys, or try to guess what pleases them, in the best case.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby eduardsson » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:15 pm

mikh wrote:Sorry, I don't enjoy this talk about refs, but I also can't agree with your conclusions @meteo.

Romania got on average 3 suspensions per match (3+4+3+2+4). Yesterday they got 10! Highest in the competition so far!
Can you honestly say they were the most brutal team in the competition, by far, yesterday evening?
And again, if that's the line of the refs, fine. But let it be for both teams. It's not about the "german refs" or "kiribati refs", it's about the refs from last night which took the majority of bad decisions against one team, added to the context of bad refereeing throughout the competition.

And of course players are the main actors in the game, coaches as well... but we cannot pretend refs are not a factor in a result. Especially in handball, in which refereeing is so subjective and can lean the balance on one side or another. Sports is about being better than your opponent and improving yourself; sometimes in handball it seems you have to better two additional guys, or try to guess what pleases them, in the best case.



It's really shameful how many of these self-procraimed ''handball experts'' refuse to see the facts. ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

No matter how much of a hater one is, to claim that yesterday's refereeing was good, not one-sided and with NO impact on the game proves you're both clueless and a big bigot.

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Re: 2017 World Championship - Day 8 & 9 (Round of 16)

Postby Gojira » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:52 pm

eduardsson wrote:
Scheersberg wrote:
eduardsson wrote:Yes. Thank your dear Germanic brothers, who massacred the game like their forefathers did not long ago.

Just do not understand your report:
- Germanic brothers: who are dear Germanic brothers?
- Massacring the game? Please give some examples, who did sacrify which game?
- "like their forefathers did not long ago." Which forefathers do you mean and when has the handball game been sacrified and by whom?



Also - let us not forget that if it wasn't for the referees your ugly orange team would have been beaten by the fantastic team of Japan. How can you sleep at night knowing 2 people destroyed the work of the years of such a team? Typical Westerner attitude.

This is not true, you obviously haven't seen the game. The two referees were quite good, especially in view of the refereeing standard on this WCh.


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