Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Talking about FEMALE handball in the World
User avatar
HB9
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 163 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby HB9 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:40 pm

You are trying to figure out the way EHF makes it's decissions. :D Good luck with that. :) It's much easier to not think much further. :lol:


idle banter.

User avatar
OltchimRmValcea
Extra Member
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Romania
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby OltchimRmValcea » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:45 pm

^Also Team Esbjerg is in front of Vipers Kristiansand and BBM in front of Krim, based on what? :-k
Have EHF any logic? I try to understand it, but there is no sense. :lol:
L. Hutupan-Dinu, V. Ardean-Elisei, Cristina Neagu, O. Manea, I. Stanca, M. Jovanovic, Y. Ozel, R. Maier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyKvP63kFHw

User avatar
Corbantis
Extra Member
Posts: 726
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:01 am
Location: Budapest (HU)
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby Corbantis » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:40 am

FTC in pot4?? congrats...

User avatar
HB9
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 163 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby HB9 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:36 am

The only reasonable explanation I can give you is that the wild card will always be placed in the final pot. It's a shame, because that ruins performance balanced groups.

OltchimRmValcea wrote:^Also Team Esbjerg is in front of Vipers Kristiansand and BBM in front of Krim, based on what? :-k
Have EHF any logic? I try to understand it, but there is no sense. :lol:


As to the rest, I guess they add country ranking and the recent (~3 years) performance of a team in the mix and somehow calculate that together.
idle banter.

User avatar
HB9
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 163 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby HB9 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:00 pm

http://www.eurohandball.com/article/032949

Pots announced - OltchimRmValcea can breathe a sigh of relief. :lol:

Pot 1
Metz Handball (FRA)
Györi Audi ETO KC (HUN)
SCM Rm Valcea (ROU)
Rostov-Don (RUS)

Pot 2
Team Esbjerg (DEN)
Buducnost (MNE)
Vipers Kristiansand (NOR)
RK Krim Mercator (SLO)

Pot 3
RK Podravka Vegeta (CRO)
SG BBM Bietigheim (GER)
MKS Perla Lublin (POL)
IK Sävehof (SWE)

Pot 4
FTC-Rail Cargo Hungaria (HUN)
CSM Bucuresti (ROU)
Brest Bretagne Handball (FRA)
Qualifier

Qualification tournament (6-8 September)
Semi-finals:
Rocasa Gran Canaria (ESP) vs DHK Banik Most (CZE)
Kastamonu GSK (TUR) vs ZORK Jagodina (SRB)
idle banter.

User avatar
Bo$ko
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 3573
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Podgorica - MONTENEGRO
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby Bo$ko » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:16 pm

...
Last edited by Bo$ko on Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
John
:::Handball Expert:::
Posts: 1492
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 pm
Been thanked: 116 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby John » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:20 pm

So EHF changes the rules again :lol:
What are the criteria for this seeding?

User avatar
OltchimRmValcea
Extra Member
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Romania
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby OltchimRmValcea » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:33 pm

HB9 wrote:http://www.eurohandball.com/article/032949

Pots announced - OltchimRmValcea can breathe a sigh of relief. :lol:

Yes indeed :p :D
I would like EHF to publish all criteria in the future.
L. Hutupan-Dinu, V. Ardean-Elisei, Cristina Neagu, O. Manea, I. Stanca, M. Jovanovic, Y. Ozel, R. Maier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyKvP63kFHw

User avatar
John
:::Handball Expert:::
Posts: 1492
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 pm
Been thanked: 116 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby John » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:56 pm

So we can have a group Valcea, Krim, Savehof, Qualifier and on the other hand Gyor, Buducnost, BBM, CSM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Group A Valcea, Krim, Savehof, Qualifier
Group B Metz, Esbjerg, Lublin, FTC


Group C Gyor, Buducnost, BBM, CSM
Group D Rostov, Vipers, Podravka, Brest

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

User avatar
jensm
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1252
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:58 pm
Location: Bergen/Trondheim
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby jensm » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Rocasa Gran Canaria (ESP) vs DHK Banik Most (CZE)
Kastamonu GSK (TUR) vs ZORK Jagodina (SRB)


Anyone have squads of these teams? And who is favorite?

User avatar
HB9
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 163 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby HB9 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:06 am

It's a shame that a mere pot allocation can decide if you look like a hero in the group stage or a loser who couldn't even win the Challenge Cup.

More care should be given to an equal (at least roughly) pot allocation.
idle banter.

AB10
Regular
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby AB10 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:58 am

Well, EHF's buffoonery doesn't surprise me in the slightest but I genuinely don't understand the reasoning behind seeding Valcea in pot 1?

Are they seeded based on EHF's coefficient ranking? Well, they can't be because for the 2019-20 season, Denmark is ranked above France and Montenegro is ranked below Norway and Germany. Are they seeded based on Romania's (and as such CSM's) CL performance in the past three seasons? Well, that's just stupid. If that's the case, say Nice had won the French championship over Metz (it potentially only takes one shitty playoff game to lose a championship), then a team that has no experience in EHF competitions would've been seeded alongside Györ, the five-times CL champions?

The fact that they don't seed the teams based on their own past performances across all EHF competitions is just peak EHF #-o

User avatar
Bo$ko
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 3573
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Podgorica - MONTENEGRO
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby Bo$ko » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:43 am

AB10 wrote:Well, EHF's buffoonery doesn't surprise me in the slightest but I genuinely don't understand the reasoning behind seeding Valcea in pot 1?

What's the problem? It's the place for ROU1 (Champion)... No matter which team it is.

AB10 wrote: Are they seeded based on Romania's (and as such CSM's) CL performance in the past three seasons?

Yes, and you all know that very well... :lol:
Image

User avatar
OltchimRmValcea
Extra Member
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Romania
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby OltchimRmValcea » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:50 am

AB10 wrote:Well, EHF's buffoonery doesn't surprise me in the slightest but I genuinely don't understand the reasoning behind seeding Valcea in pot 1?

Are they seeded based on EHF's coefficient ranking? Well, they can't be because for the 2019-20 season, Denmark is ranked above France and Montenegro is ranked below Norway and Germany. Are they seeded based on Romania's (and as such CSM's) CL performance in the past three seasons? Well, that's just stupid. If that's the case, say Nice had won the French championship over Metz (it potentially only takes one shitty playoff game to lose a championship), then a team that has no experience in EHF competitions would've been seeded alongside Györ, the five-times CL champions?

The fact that they don't seed the teams based on their own past performances across all EHF competitions is just peak EHF #-o

This is their system for years, and even it's not shown to public how they calculate, I guess there is a mix between country ranking in EHF Champions League (no matter the name of club is, as @Bo$ko said above) and EHF Ranking overall.

I agree with you, they need to change their system and start to count club performances as individuals, to make a club ranking (based on their own performances). From my point of view, would be better a system with a more balanced mix (30% country points overall and 70% own club points).
L. Hutupan-Dinu, V. Ardean-Elisei, Cristina Neagu, O. Manea, I. Stanca, M. Jovanovic, Y. Ozel, R. Maier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyKvP63kFHw

User avatar
Bo$ko
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 3573
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Podgorica - MONTENEGRO
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby Bo$ko » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:00 am

I will open a new topic for new CL season. :)
Image

AB10
Regular
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby AB10 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:22 am

Bo$ko wrote:
AB10 wrote:Well, EHF's buffoonery doesn't surprise me in the slightest but I genuinely don't understand the reasoning behind seeding Valcea in pot 1?

What's the problem? It's the place for ROU1 (Champion)... No matter which team it is.

AB10 wrote: Are they seeded based on Romania's (and as such CSM's) CL performance in the past three seasons?

Yes, and you all know that very well... :lol:

I explained the problem later on in my post, but I'll happily reiterate for you. The problem is while it's true that Valcea are ROU1, they don't have the quality to be seeded alongside Györ, Metz and Rostov-Don. I have a lot of respect for them for beating CSM this season, but you should be top seeded based on your own performance, not on the basis of CSM's prior top performances. As I said, this is an EHF classic (I mean it's not like it's ever seemed to be the EHF's intention to make this competition more competitive in any way – especially not considering the format they're introducing for the 2020-21 season) but it does nothing but create discrepancy to have a team that would, no offence, otherwise be thrashed by a team like Györ be seeded alongside of them. Sort of washes out the entire point of having seedings.

User avatar
swarthofole
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:55 pm
Location: Bucharest
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby swarthofole » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:15 pm

Bo$ko agrees to what you were stating, @AB10, but he's just mocking you. :D Don't be so serious (especially on h123 forum 8:) )
According to you (and not only) the teams should be seeded taking into consideration their own performance. So this means BUD would have been seeded pot 1 and CSM as well. I bet that would please fellow Bo$ko here, but it will be also fair. Of course, Valcea should be seeded pot 4.
So what's the point in this debate? EHF's means and wishes are not designed for right paths, they always bend some lines according to their own interests. Complaining about this is like complaining about rainy or sunny days. It's simply out of logic.
Live long and prosper.

User avatar
John
:::Handball Expert:::
Posts: 1492
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 pm
Been thanked: 116 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby John » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:09 pm

All this talk is nonsense.

Nothing makes sense.

The seedings are stupid.

Based on the ranking list of the leagues Gyor, Valcea, Rostov and Esbjerg should be in pot 1.

BBM should then definitely be in pot 2 because Germany is 7th in the ranking list and Slovenia is 13th. Based on that Lublin and Savehof should be seeded better than Krim as well as Kastamonu because Turkey is in front of Slovenia.. And Kastamonu plays the qualifications.

So if they are not looking only the rankings they must be looking also at the individual achievements.. So then you wonder what is Valcea doing in pot 1? What is Krim doing in pot 2?
I understand that CSM, FTC etc are in the last pot because they are not champions and that is completely normal seeding for them.

So nothing makes sense..

The normal seeding if you count everything would be:

Pot 1 Gyor, Buducnost, Rostov, Metz
Pot 2 Vipers, Esbjerg, Valcea, BBM
Pot 3 Krim, Podravka, Savehof, Lublin
Po4 CSM, FTC, Brest, Qualifier

User avatar
Bo$ko
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 3573
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Podgorica - MONTENEGRO
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby Bo$ko » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:05 pm

OMG so many Sisyphos on this forum... Incredibil :lol:
Image

User avatar
swarthofole
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:55 pm
Location: Bucharest
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby swarthofole » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:17 pm

John wrote:All this talk is nonsense.

Nothing makes sense.

The seedings are stupid.

Based on the ranking list of the leagues Gyor, Valcea, Rostov and Esbjerg should be in pot 1.

BBM should then definitely be in pot 2 because Germany is 7th in the ranking list and Slovenia is 13th. Based on that Lublin and Savehof should be seeded better than Krim as well as Kastamonu because Turkey is in front of Slovenia.. And Kastamonu plays the qualifications.

So if they are not looking only the rankings they must be looking also at the individual achievements.. So then you wonder what is Valcea doing in pot 1? What is Krim doing in pot 2?
I understand that CSM, FTC etc are in the last pot because they are not champions and that is completely normal seeding for them.

So nothing makes sense..

The normal seeding if you count everything would be:

Pot 1 Gyor, Buducnost, Rostov, Metz
Pot 2 Vipers, Esbjerg, Valcea, BBM
Pot 3 Krim, Podravka, Savehof, Lublin
Po4 CSM, FTC, Brest, Qualifier


imho based on the performance in the past seasons and the points the team earned (I am too lazy to calculate at this moment :D ), pot 1 should be: Gyor, CSM, BUD, Rostov. no country coefficient took into account. just like in football, if you allow my poor parallel. if accepted, it shouldn't matter your country ranking in that EHF sheet or if Champions or not, it should be at stake only your past performance. but who am I to judge EHF? :D
Live long and prosper.

Domokos Pál
Regular
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:27 am
Location: Budapest
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby Domokos Pál » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:45 pm

As long as there will be no group with 4 strong teams (and Pot 3 guarantees there won't), I don't think the seedings matter much. 2 or 3 strong teams in the same group? All the more exciting games already in autumn.

User avatar
Derp
Extra Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:31 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Allocation for CL / EHF-Cup after the current season

Postby Derp » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:10 pm

Not sure if many of you realized this:

'Place no. 10 in the Champions League is reserved for a team from the federation that is the best ranked federation of the European Handball League seeding list, which will be calculated from the performance in the European Handball League only. (Important to note is that the seeding always includes the most recent season while the ranking, as mentioned before, leaves away the most recent season. The seeding for the 2020/21 season therefore is based on the results of the seasons 2017/18, 2018/19 and 2019/20. Based on that it is for example clear that in the Men's EHF Champions League this place will be claimed by Germany as their teams won the previous two editions of the EHF Cup and no matter what happens in 2019/20 Germany will remain on the top of the seeding list for 2020/21.)'

Source: http://www.eurohandball.com/article/33005

Referring to the men's competition in nutshell it means that they shortened the list of teams for the CL but for God's sake they wanted to this in a way to ensure the German majority by all costs. The solution: Your performance in CL does not matter in the decision. They found the approach that will grant German teams the advantage again no matter that they did not have a single(!) applicant in the final4 for 3 years now.
Bravissimo!

Let me guess for the 6 additional teams: FRA, GER, HUN, BLR, CRO, SLO

And voilá, there we have again 3 German teams in the even shortened CL list without letting them to risk their places in real matches...
:shock:


Return to “Female Handball”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests