Urgent request.

Talking about FEMALE handball in the World
skotte
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Urgent request.

Postby skotte » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:31 am

I like to know if you know insidents in matches between local teams ore other were one team have left the court in protest and have returned to finish the game og lefte for good.

If you know of indcidents of this kind plese tell me the fact and how the insidents were punished.



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Postby skotte » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:07 pm

yabbagabb wrote:all i would like to do is to make everyone remember or let to know that the coach of knjaz milos did the same as anja,the game was stopped for at least one minute because he didn't like how the referees worked in the match dferr-milos.so it's not a unique story and i wonder why noone were speaking about scandal and extremely hard punishments after that.anyway,i don't know if he got any kind of punishment at all.
it makes me believe again that anja never gets a positive judge bcause of her achievements but the opposite of that probably because some people don't like if others are succesful...


Could you pleas send me more information about this match.

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Postby podravec » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:30 pm

I remember male match between RK Zagreb and RK Metkovic when, in final playout, RK Metkovic left the match. There were talks about sending them into last league but our national asociation just took few points and punished the club's president and coach.

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Postby Falk » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:32 pm

I hope you will mail the incidents to EHF, skotte!

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Postby skotte » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:43 pm

podravec wrote:I remember male match between RK Zagreb and RK Metkovic when, in final playout, RK Metkovic left the match. There were talks about sending them into last league but our national asociation just took few points and punished the club's president and coach.


Tank you very much =D>

I hope you can supply me with more detials.

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Postby podravec » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:14 pm

I'll do my best to find more info.

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Postby zero » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:19 pm

at first, coach and manager of metkovic was punished with 2 years, and after 4/5 of that time he was coach of metkovic again
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Postby BlueSwan » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:23 pm

This was posted by Slagelsefan a few days ago:

Well apparently there are 3 cases of precedence, besides the situation with Knjaz Milos' coach.

1990 between Roskilde and Herlev (female handball). Herlev left the court after 10 min. of the 1st half and never returned. It was sanctioned that Herlev lost the game, and the coach got a 3-match-quarantine.

1990-91 between ASH 72 og Fåborg. The situation looks a lot like the one with Slagelse - Fåborg left the match with 5 min. to go of the 1st half, in protest of a lot of suspensions. They returned after 5 minutes. The Fåborg-coach got ca. 2-match suspension.

2001: Between Slagelse FH og Nordfalster (Mens) - Nordfalster left the court at halftime and never returned. No suspension for the coach, but the club was sanctioned 600 kr (!) - this case was affirmed by DHF in 2001!
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Postby yabbagabb » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:39 pm

skotte wrote:
yabbagabb wrote:all i would like to do is to make everyone remember or let to know that the coach of knjaz milos did the same as anja,the game was stopped for at least one minute because he didn't like how the referees worked in the match dferr-milos.so it's not a unique story and i wonder why noone were speaking about scandal and extremely hard punishments after that.anyway,i don't know if he got any kind of punishment at all.
it makes me believe again that anja never gets a positive judge bcause of her achievements but the opposite of that probably because some people don't like if others are succesful...


Could you pleas send me more information about this match.


well,it was a "simple" story.the knjaz-coach was commentating all the judges and in the middle of the second half refs had enough of that and gave milos a two minutes suspension,kinda "technical suspension";and then the coach said: "ok,under such conditions we won't continue playing the match!" - and he asked the girls to come to him (they did it),then they were standing there (at the edge of the field) about one minute while the DHF-controller was asking him to continue the match.as i remember it was rather the girls who decided to get back on the court,they (just like the audience) didn't understand the situation really.there was no scandal,because dunaferr was leading about 10 goals,playing for fun and the viewers were celebrating and thanking the team to say good-bye to CL in a nice way.
the similarity was that he (the coach) stopped the match for a time like anja,the difference that he didn't touch the refs and didn't show aggressive emotions towards refs or EHF-controller.
i don't know if these informations you were interested in,but that's what i can tell you bout this match.

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Postby LokomotivaFan » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:17 pm

podravec wrote:I remember male match between RK Zagreb and RK Metkovic when, in final playout, RK Metkovic left the match. There were talks about sending them into last league but our national asociation just took few points and punished the club's president and coach.

RK Zagreb played Metkovic Jambo in the final of the 2000/2001 championships. In the decisive 5th match Metkovic left the court with a minute and a half before the final whistle with the score 22:21 in Zagreb's favour.

HRS's (Croatian handball federation) disciplinary committee suspended Metkovic's coach Ivica Obrvan and sport director Dragan Jurković for 2 years, and gave the club's manager Zdenko Dragović a life expulsion from handball. All of the players were suspended for 4 championship or cup matches in the 2001/2002 season. And the club was relegated to the second league.

Metkovic appealed, and about a month later the HRS's managing board reduced the sentences. The club was given a suspended sentance of one year. Coach Ivica Obrvan was suspended for 6 months, Zdenko Dragović was suspended for 3 years while the players were given a two match ban. The club was also fined 25.000 kuna's which is the equivalent of 25.000 danish kruna's. And Metkovic was not relegated to the second league.

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Postby Ricci » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:49 pm

There was few similar cases in Macedonia. Every thime there was suspensions for the person who oredered but only for our National League Matches.
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Postby slagelsefan » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:54 pm

Slagelse homepage mention another example. In a match between Korea and Denmark in 2004, the korean coach - in protest of refs - stopped his team from playing, but the match was resumed after a break.

DHF apparently never filed a complaint, and the action had no consequences.

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Postby skotte » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:00 pm

Ricci wrote:There was few similar cases in Macedonia. Every thime there was suspensions for the person who oredered but only for our National League Matches.


Thank you for your answer. Can you give more details?

Goran

Postby Goran » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:10 pm

Ricci wrote:There was few similar cases in Macedonia. Every thime there was suspensions for the person who oredered but only for our National League Matches.


Rici, did Tutunski get penalty for not going in offense on the match against Pelister? (They were jus playing in the defense, but didn't leave the field or attack the refs. (right?), when protesting on the refereeing)

How about Sjokovski (a player) who hit the ref Nacevski, is he still suispended?

I disagree with EHF, they shouldn't punish her for that much, but thats EHF. For incident on Kometal match in 2000, the entire Macedonian handball was suspended for one year. Noone supported us then :(

Anyway, I hope Anja will learn the lesson this time. Macedonian handball was suspended, but now Kometal organizes matches with perfect security, and the "fans" like that guy are stopped. But also, Prokop is much more calmed than he was before.

So, the Danish federation will be more careful if there is next time in Danish handball, but Anja must not repeat the incidents

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Postby Ricci » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:15 pm

skotte wrote:
Ricci wrote:There was few similar cases in Macedonia. Every thime there was suspensions for the person who oredered but only for our National League Matches.


Thank you for your answer. Can you give more details?


10 days ago president of T.K. Brend (men Cup competition) has ordered to his players to leave the court. They do that, but come back and match finished. He is suspended 1 month. (Actually untill the end of season because our season finished in april) There was few similar cases in past.
Piont is that EHF will not act untill federation ask to. If Macedonian federation ask for international suspension than EHF will probably suport them just like in DHF case. If not, suspension is only for National championship. EHF didn’t care what is going on unless they are somehow invovled.
DHF must hate Andersen a lot because asking for international suspension is extreme.
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Postby Ricci » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:24 pm

It was Shopov that hit refferee Nachevski. And he got international suspension at that time. But after a while our federation pulled out international suspension and he get licecnce to play in Germany i think...
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Postby skotte » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:39 pm

Thank you so far. I appriciate any answer and example. =D>

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Postby BlueSwan » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:48 pm

Goran wrote:I disagree with EHF, they shouldn't punish her for that much, but thats EHF. For incident on Kometal match in 2000, the entire Macedonian handball was suspended for one year. Noone supported us then :(

That's not true. I think a lot of handball fans - including me - thought that it was unfair. I think a fair verdict would have been stripping Kometal of the rights to play any international matches in Macedonia for one CL season (they could still participate in the CL but would have to play all matches away), but that's as far as it should have gone. There should not have been any ban on Macedonian handball in general.
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Postby Picek » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:09 pm

BlueSwan wrote: I think a fair verdict would have been stripping Kometal of the rights to play any international matches in Macedonia for one CL season (they could still participate in the CL but would have to play all matches away), but that's as far as it should have gone.
few years ago RK Zagreb was banned for one year from CL games but our other clubs participated in EHF cups.....
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Postby TheDane » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:17 pm

slagelsefan wrote:Slagelse homepage mention another example. In a match between Korea and Denmark in 2004, the korean coach - in protest of refs - stopped his team from playing, but the match was resumed after a break.

DHF apparently never filed a complaint, and the action had no consequences.

Yeah I saw that match on TV. It was only a traning match in Denmark.

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Postby OneBYOne » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:34 pm

TheDane wrote:
slagelsefan wrote:Slagelse homepage mention another example. In a match between Korea and Denmark in 2004, the korean coach - in protest of refs - stopped his team from playing, but the match was resumed after a break.

DHF apparently never filed a complaint, and the action had no consequences.

Yeah I saw that match on TV. It was only a traning match in Denmark.


When you say only, then think about ADH and SDT had nothing to win from their last two matches since VHK had won both matches against ADH.

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Postby euphoria » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:36 pm

LokomotivaFan wrote:
podravec wrote:I remember male match between RK Zagreb and RK Metkovic when, in final playout, RK Metkovic left the match. There were talks about sending them into last league but our national asociation just took few points and punished the club's president and coach.

RK Zagreb played Metkovic Jambo in the final of the 2000/2001 championships. In the decisive 5th match Metkovic left the court with a minute and a half before the final whistle with the score 22:21 in Zagreb's favour.

HRS's (Croatian handball federation) disciplinary committee suspended Metkovic's coach Ivica Obrvan and sport director Dragan Jurković for 2 years, and gave the club's manager Zdenko Dragović a life expulsion from handball. All of the players were suspended for 4 championship or cup matches in the 2001/2002 season. And the club was relegated to the second league.

Metkovic appealed, and about a month later the HRS's managing board reduced the sentences. The club was given a suspended sentance of one year. Coach Ivica Obrvan was suspended for 6 months, Zdenko Dragović was suspended for 3 years while the players were given a two match ban. The club was also fined 25.000 kuna's which is the equivalent of 25.000 danish kruna's. And Metkovic was not relegated to the second league.


Compared to this it actually now seems that Anja got off easy!!!
I have always suspected DHF to be in the pockets of Anja and her gang of thugs in Slagelse 8:)

Please Skotte - Don't send these info to DHF - we wouldn't want to see an extension on the initial verdict.
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Postby TheDane » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:36 pm

OneBYOne wrote:
TheDane wrote:
slagelsefan wrote:Slagelse homepage mention another example. In a match between Korea and Denmark in 2004, the korean coach - in protest of refs - stopped his team from playing, but the match was resumed after a break.

DHF apparently never filed a complaint, and the action had no consequences.

Yeah I saw that match on TV. It was only a traning match in Denmark.


When you say only, then think about ADH and SDT had nothing to win from their last two matches since VHK had won both matches against ADH.

Why should I think about that?
I doesn't put Anja's acting in a better light.
And to say ADH had nothing to win from their last two matches is simply not true. ADH still had the chance to get the 2nd place instead of Viborg, which would mean ADH would play 2 out of 3 semifinals at homecourt instea of just one and ADH has clearly shown they are much stronger at home than away, so this would be very important for ADH.
ADH has only lost two times at homecourt in the last two years! Both times to Viborg btw. They have now beaten Slagelse 3 out of 3 times at home in the last two seasons.

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Postby skotte » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:45 pm

euphoria wrote:
LokomotivaFan wrote:
podravec wrote:I remember male match between RK Zagreb and RK Metkovic when, in final playout, RK Metkovic left the match. There were talks about sending them into last league but our national asociation just took few points and punished the club's president and coach.

RK Zagreb played Metkovic Jambo in the final of the 2000/2001 championships. In the decisive 5th match Metkovic left the court with a minute and a half before the final whistle with the score 22:21 in Zagreb's favour.

HRS's (Croatian handball federation) disciplinary committee suspended Metkovic's coach Ivica Obrvan and sport director Dragan Jurković for 2 years, and gave the club's manager Zdenko Dragović a life expulsion from handball. All of the players were suspended for 4 championship or cup matches in the 2001/2002 season. And the club was relegated to the second league.

Metkovic appealed, and about a month later the HRS's managing board reduced the sentences. The club was given a suspended sentance of one year. Coach Ivica Obrvan was suspended for 6 months, Zdenko Dragović was suspended for 3 years while the players were given a two match ban. The club was also fined 25.000 kuna's which is the equivalent of 25.000 danish kruna's. And Metkovic was not relegated to the second league.


Compared to this it actually now seems that Anja got off easy!!!
I have always suspected DHF to be in the pockets of Anja and her gang of thugs in Slagelse 8:)

Please Skotte - Don't send these info to DHF - we wouldn't want to see an extension on the initial verdict.


As far I can see form the first message in this case. I understand that RK Metkovic left and never returned and finished the game. That a big difference to the present case :shock:

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Postby slagelsefan » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:57 pm

TheDane wrote:
OneBYOne wrote:
TheDane wrote:
slagelsefan wrote:Slagelse homepage mention another example. In a match between Korea and Denmark in 2004, the korean coach - in protest of refs - stopped his team from playing, but the match was resumed after a break.

DHF apparently never filed a complaint, and the action had no consequences.

Yeah I saw that match on TV. It was only a traning match in Denmark.


When you say only, then think about ADH and SDT had nothing to win from their last two matches since VHK had won both matches against ADH.

Why should I think about that?
I doesn't put Anja's acting in a better light.


Well, I don't quite agree with Onebyone's argument, but the main point of this has to be that if action X results in not even a complaint in a friendly match, action X in a league match shouldn't resolve in 1 years nat. suspension, 3 months int. suspension and 100.000 kr in fine.

And regards to DHF's verdict, from a legal point of view, one has to mainly focus on precedence involving DHF. It is one of our main legal principles that a perpetrator must have a fair expectation of what penalty to expect. The harshest verdict in Denmark up untill now (for a worse incident, left at hafltime and never came back) resulted in 3-match suspension.

Another question - has there ever been a preceding case, where a sanction imposed by a national federation, has been "lifted up" into EHF?


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