Handball history

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Fan-Oltchim
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Re: Handball history

Postby Fan-Oltchim » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:48 pm

can some one help me find a link for the EC 2010 small final Roumania -Denmark video?Thanks


Oltchim Ramnicu Valcea
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Re: Handball history

Postby Mixball » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:39 pm

Fan-Oltchim wrote:can some one help me find a link for the EC 2010 small final Roumania -Denmark video?Thanks


Among others:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3443&start=787
I welcome your post with enthusiasm.Image

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Re: Handball history

Postby frank34 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:04 am

me miles away wrote:I want Olympic games 2004 final Denmark VS South Korea or at least the highlights


You might find it here http://www.olympic.org/handball

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Questions regarding Baekkelaget and the mid 90's.

Postby 123123 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:17 pm

Hello all! This is a question for the "older" handball fans. I personally started following womans handball around 94 at age of 7. Sadly only NT handball was on TV and there was no such things as the internet. As a result, I could not find any information about the club teams. That changes a lot around 2002 when I got easy access to the net.

However not all my questions have been.. satisfied. In the mid to late 90's, Denmark had a NT which was probably the strongest in the world at the time, however one player did stand out, a player who's by many highly regarded as the best player of the world at that time. No other than Anja Andersen.

During the same period, Leganger was regarded as, if not the best, then one of the best keepers and a major backbone in the norwegian national team of the 90's.

Now all this is from memory of tabloids trying to sell handball, so it might be somewhat screwed from what people of other nationalities were told. Since I was only 7-12 during this time, I'll admit my perception, or to say, the memory of the perception back then, might not be accurate with how it really was. Yet assuming the case was that Leganger and Andersen were some of the world best players I gotta ask this:

Since I found out that Baekkelaget apparently had Both Andersen and Leganger together with other great players at the late 90's, how come they never had more success than triumphs in the cup winners cup? Did they not live up to their expectations those seasons, or were there other really really strong teams who simply were equal or better? I'd really like if someone could share some thoughts of those times. I personally, currently, think of it in similar ways to Slagelse. They also had Leganger and then Popovic in stead of Andersen as a player who stood out from the rest. Together with other great players, Slagelse won several Champions League trophies and was probably the strongest team in the world during the mid 2000's.
So how come this wasn't the case with Baekkelaget?

When I look at the mid 90's seasons, I see that Hypo was a very strong contender. At least they stand out the most in this period. What kind of players did Hypo have which could best the like of Andersen and Leganger?

Finally, I can't help but wonder, how does the handball of back then compare to todays handball? How would.. say Györ 2012, Larvik 2011 or Viborg 2010 perform against e.g. Hypo, Valencia and Podravka of those days? Is the teams generally stronger today? Weaker?

Thanks for any thoughts you may have about the topic. I look forward to read your reply!:)

Edit: While at it, how do you think Krim Ljubljana from the early 2000's compares in strength with teams of today? Would they be able to reach CL semis? Main round? Finals?

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Re: Questions regarding Baekkelaget and the mid 90's.

Postby earlysutton » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:05 am

Anyone?

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Re: Questions regarding Baekkelaget and the mid 90's.

Postby Mr. 007 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:54 am

It was all about Hypo back then. Prokop gave the best players around the world citizenship in Austria, as Hypo also was the NT of Austria.
They knew each other well, you could say, and no team had a chance against Hypo as Prokop also used dirty tricks to help secure victories...it seemed like Prokop really needed to win CL every year to make the budget in balance :)

You cannot compare those teams with today, as it was about POWER and MUSCLES back then, and I think most of the Easter europeans to Hypo used stereoids, but that is just my thoughts...

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Re: Questions regarding Baekkelaget and the mid 90's.

Postby masch1 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:20 pm

About Bækkelaget - correct me if I'm wrong, I was only 10 at the time and not living in norway, but from my recollection it was mostly all Grini and Anja doing the scoring. So perhaps the team was also not wide enough for CL?

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Re: Questions regarding Baekkelaget and the mid 90's.

Postby 123123 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:33 pm

Thanks for all the replies so far! :D

I checked up on the Austrian nation team in womans handball, and I noticed that from 1990-1999 they gained:
European Championship:
1 bronze, 1 fourth place.
World Cup:
1 bronze.

Which is all in all not that impressive thinking the same team won CL "year after year", but it made me think of another similie. Oltchim Valcea was one of the first clubs I were aware of who had put together most parts of a NT (Romanian one). The Romanian NT are no doubt a power to be considered in womans handball, and at the time OCV came to be, it's my impression that Romania were the most powerful outsider to the eternal champions from Russia and Norway. Romania even had at the time and later on as well some very impressive games against Norway.
So Romania was not superior in NT aspect, but very strong without doubt, however Oltchim Valcea quickly seemed invincible. Heck, had it not been for cheapness in their group in their first CL main round debut, I'd like to think they'd have won CL their very first season. Then Viborg "dream team" came about and since then OCV haven't seem that scaring.
In any case, it just goes to show that the strongest NT is probably a lot stronger than the strongest club teams, so despite collecting the best players of the world, a match against a team consisting of a NT will most likely not be easy.

Then again, there are exception to the rule, I believe. Like Hypo with the brazilian NT, a NT with great success at WC, while Hypo were eliminated (though they got a win against Györ!!) from their group at last position.

Anyway, if someone also have comments regarding Dunafer late 90's and Krim early 2000's compared to todays teams and handball strength amount clubs in general I'd really appreciate any comments! :)

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Re: Questions regarding Baekkelaget and the mid 90's.

Postby Hajas » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:10 am

I think you are asking a good question here. I saw Bækkelaget many games in the 90s.

As you are saying they had alot of great players (Andersen, Goksør,Grini, Leganger etc). But their coach sucked (Kyvåg). He couldnt make them work together as a team. They hardly won the norwegian league. The problem was that they were weak in the defense which Kyvåg has no great knowledge. You also have to remember they were young at that time.

Anjas personality was also difficult to deal with. She was often followed by norwegian media and the refs did not like her behaviour

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Re: Questions regarding Baekkelaget and the mid 90's.

Postby fmj » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:54 am

http://www.nettavisen.no/sport/article3315200.ece

This is a great interview with Kyvåg. It's also about many things not related to your question, but a great read. Hope google translate doesn't trash it completely.

"- Du vil ikke høre om det
Andersens sykdom, konfliktene og oppslagene til tross, «Sirkus Bækkelaget» fortjener så definitivt et eget kapittel når historien om norsk idrett skal skrives. Det var liksom noe helt unikt.

Totalt sopet Kyvåg og hans jenter med seg to europacuptriumfer, tre seriemesterskap, tre NM-gull, to sluttspillgull og en europeisk supercuptriumf. Spenning var det også hele veien.

I europacupene ble det da, som nå, mange turer til Øst-Europa. På disse turene har Kyvåg opplevd noen av sine verste minner innen håndballen. Han beskriver møtet med en «mafia».

- I Øst-Europa har jeg hatt opplevelser du verken vil høre om eller tro på. Fra den tidlige starten handlet alt om Øst-Europa i håndballen. Alt ble styrt og administrert derfra.

- Jeg har levd et langt liv i østeuropeisk toppidrett. Jeg kaller det en mafia. De som satt og styrte den gangen var en mafia og den levde vi med til langt inn på 1990-tallet, forteller Kyvåg.

Han forteller om arrangører som opptrådte hinsides all fornuft. Han forteller om uærlige dommere, ledere som ikke brydde seg og sleipe triks for å skremme vannet av motstanderen.

- Europacupfinalen vår i Debrecen i Ungarn kommer jeg aldri til å glemme så lenge jeg lever. Det er det sureste og mest vanvittige jeg har opplevd i hele mitt liv, fastslår 66-åringen.

- Vi hadde to stein korrupte dommere fra Holland. De dukket for øvrig opp på banketten med hver sin selskapsdame, som de var utstyrt med av arrangøren, og kalte dem sine koner.

Bækkelaget tapte den første kampen i Ungarn med ti mål, kun på grunn av dommerne ifølge Kyvåg. Hjemme i Norge vant laget returkampen med ti mål, men tapte på bortemålsregelen.

- To hovedsponsorer trakk seg etter den turen til Ungarn. De ville ikke være med å støtte håndballen lenger, etter det de hadde sett der. Det er også det verste jeg har opplevd."

"- Unner ikke dine fiender
Opplevelsen i Debrecen er imidlertid bare én av svært mange slike episoder Kyvåg kan erindre. Det pågående håndball-EM i Serbia har gitt ham et kaldt gufs fra håndballfortiden.

- Når jeg ser åpningskampen mellom Sverige og Makedonia og ser 4000 fanatiske, gale makedonere på tribunen som skremmer vettet av svenskene, tenker jeg på bortekamper i Skopje.

- Der har jeg hatt noen opplevelser som du ikke unner dine verste fiender. Du føler deg truet på livet når du sitter og coacher et mannskap. Det er helt sinnssykt, forteller treneren.

Kyvåg kan kun huske ett tilfelle der en arrangør har blitt straffet for slik oppførsel. Det var i Skopje. Ett års straff i forhold til hjemmekamper. Det vil si, kampene ble flyttet to meter bort i gaten.

- De setter opp dørene om natta, slik at det legger seg kondens på gulvet. Det blir livsfarlig å spille. Vertene har sugekopper under skoene, mens våre sklir rundt som Bambi på isen.

- Politiet står med gevær i døra og vi må sitte i garderoben to timer etter kampslutt før de slipper oss ut. Dette er ekstreme opplevelser innenfor en idrett som ikke skal være sånn.

66-åringen både håper og tror forholdene innen håndballen har blitt bedre siden han selv var i manesjen. De sure opplevelsene har uansett ikke satt noen demper på totalopplevelsen.

- Ikke noe av dette overskygger de fantastiske opplevelsene jeg har fått være med på. Vi har vunnet omtrent alt som går an å vinne. Jeg ser tilbake på det meste med glede, sier han."

If google-translate or any other program can't translate this, I can give it a go when I have time.

The short version is that he meantions playing conditions, dirty tricks, corrupt judges.

Example:

"They put up the doors at night to make the playing field slippery, and they played with suction cups under their shoes". :shock:


I think they suffered injuries and in maybe their best year 1998/1999 they weren't in CL. They crushed Dunaferr in 1998 42 - 33 in a match. Dunaferr won CL in 1998/1999.

In 1999 they lost after extra time against Dunaferr in the EC for club teams. Bækkelaget - Dunaferr (Ungarn) 24-24 (12-13). 27-28 e.o.

In the article from 1999, Kyvåg says that they for the first time have all the players on their feet and that they are starting to see what potential they got.


Regarding the level before and now. I think 80s teams would be beaten pretty easy by the best today. (Only based on a few clips I've seen) The best Norwegian team is probably that of 2008 in Beijing. Best attacking handball for me is probably still South Korea in 1996, I still think it's a shame that they lost against Denmark. Players like Ausra Fridrikas would still be dominant today, that's my gut feeling anyways.

Leganger is one of a few still playing so far back and she certainly has kept up. The same with Oh who was great for Hypo. So I don't think the top level for the individual player has improved the last years. Better tactics, better defence, maybe more players at a higher level. Tonje Larsen is still great, without her knee problems she would have been something that is even better than unbelieveable. :)

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Re: Handball history

Postby hajra » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:01 am

Video for Spain-Germany ,semifinal 2008 in Macedonia?

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Re: Questions regarding Baekkelaget and the mid 90's.

Postby zorasourit » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:39 pm

fmj wrote:http://www.nettavisen.no/sport/article3315200.ece


Takk for artiklen! He is saying quite a few highly interesting things :)

Eastern Europe was pretty much Wild East at the time and I am sure things settled significantly since.

Debrecen's win over Bækkelaget is rated very, very highly in the history of Hungarian club handball - and I would be pretty certain, other clubs, also Western Europeans, if they cared, used some sort of bribery.

Legendary Hungarian coach Läszló Laurencz was being asked in an interview, whether he wants to write a book about his life as handball coach and especially head of the NT. He said, he would gladly do so but couldn't afford to have a lawyer for the trials related to the book. 8:) And yes, I would love to read Trefilov's autobiography, too :)

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Re: Handball history

Postby Joana » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:49 pm

Heh, imagine if that article had been posted (and translated) here some years ago. :)
Women's World Volleyball Championship
20.10.2018, Yokohama (JPN)
1. Serbia 2. Italy 3. China
The history is made. Thank you, girls!

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Re: Handball history

Postby treideca44 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:21 am

Hei, I have a nice video for you.

CS Oltchim vs Legends From Oltchim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsSGIBKdE0

Look at 2:24, superbly goal from Maria Torok Duca. (she has played at Oltchim between 1982-1994).

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Re: Handball history

Postby jensm » Tue May 15, 2012 4:54 pm

Sombody have matches with Lljiljana Knezevic? Really want to see some matches with her.

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Re: Handball history

Postby GB fan » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:32 am

treideca44 wrote:Hei, I have a nice video for you.

CS Oltchim vs Legends From Oltchim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsSGIBKdE0

Look at 2:24, superbly goal from Maria Torok Duca. (she has played at Oltchim between 1982-1994).



yeah great stuff

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Re: Handball history

Postby fmj » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:13 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R83P_Joj ... re=related

I've posted this before, but I'm sure you can take a re run. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuQ7HOzatgo

Gjerpen crushing Larvik a long, long time ago. A little re-cap, notice Tonje Larsen.

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Re: Handball history

Postby I.L.T. » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:34 pm

Sometimes I wonder if all from UK are really blond..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympi ... -risk.html
Think I will go for something possitive here - Handball is just a great sport!

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Re: Handball history

Postby madu » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:39 pm

Mixball wrote:
Fan-Oltchim wrote:can some one help me find a link for the EC 2010 small final Roumania -Denmark video?Thanks


Among others:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3443&start=787



Could somebody help me (again) with the same link? Or with other links from EC 2010? Thanks!

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Re: Handball history

Postby Germanicus » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:44 pm

Buducnost failed 6 times in the semifinals.
http://youtu.be/N8LJWx1_FU8 is one of them.
In conclusion, I declare that EHF must be destroyed

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Re: Handball history

Postby Stefan_MNE » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:32 pm

Wow, I can't believe this match is finally on YouTube! For me, and I'm more than sure for other forum members as well, this semifinal was by far the biggest disappointment since I started watching handball in the mid 1990s. We had virtually everything - the strongest and most experienced team on paper, a draw in the first leg and a packed hall. And we failed.

And I was sooo young (16, I think) and naive! :lol: Well, now I'm laughing, while I have no words to describe the bitter feeling in my belly that lasted days after the match. It took Budućnost years to recover from this shock.

I'll try to watch it in full as soon as I find the time and see what went wrong (now cool-headed, after more than 11 years). :) It will also be interesting to compare the handball level then and now, as there are only a few full matches from this era on YouTube.

Thanks for posting this, Germanicus!

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Re: Handball history

Postby Christian » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:00 pm

madu wrote:
Mixball wrote:
Fan-Oltchim wrote:can some one help me find a link for the EC 2010 small final Roumania -Denmark video?Thanks


Among others:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3443&start=787



Could somebody help me (again) with the same link? Or with other links from EC 2010? Thanks!



Try here (bottom of the page) : http://balonfemme.blogspot.fr/search?up ... results=50

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madu
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Re: Handball history

Postby madu » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:47 pm

Christian wrote:

Try here (bottom of the page) : http://balonfemme.blogspot.fr/search?up ... results=50



Unfortunately, they are not working anymore :(

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Re: Handball history

Postby MacReady » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:56 am

Stefan_MNE wrote:Wow, I can't believe this match is finally on YouTube! For me, and I'm more than sure for other forum members as well, this semifinal was by far the biggest disappointment since I started watching handball in the mid 1990s. We had virtually everything - the strongest and most experienced team on paper, a draw in the first leg and a packed hall. And we failed.

And I was sooo young (16, I think) and naive! :lol: Well, now I'm laughing, while I have no words to describe the bitter feeling in my belly that lasted days after the match. It took Budućnost years to recover from this shock.

I'll try to watch it in full as soon as I find the time and see what went wrong (now cool-headed, after more than 11 years). :) It will also be interesting to compare the handball level then and now, as there are only a few full matches from this era on YouTube.

Thanks for posting this, Germanicus!


Stefan, our wounds are healed after May 2012 :D

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Re: Handball history

Postby Anicia Juliana » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:52 am

Germanicus wrote:Buducnost failed 6 times in the semifinals.
http://youtu.be/N8LJWx1_FU8 is one of them.

Thank you for this link!

This is the earliest Bojana-recording I watch, I am impressed. She was already super inteligent but her shot was nothing like what I have seen in her last years in handball.

Marjana Bulatovic was fantastic to watch also. A true leader and great athlete.

I enjoyed watching Agnes Farkas, and some other FTC players I don't know by name (they had better player variety than Buducnost).

Except for Bojana and Maja, everyone was bad for Buducnost. Not to mention their horrible defence and goalkeeper, Dragica Djuric, who was never a good GK imo. The FTC goalie, much more interesting.

And that crowd! Moraca is much more quiet nowadays.
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