Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Talking about FEMALE handball in the World
User avatar
barry.romania
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 879
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:41 pm
Location: Baia Mare
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby barry.romania » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:05 am

mmm

Image


Image

User avatar
LucianK
Extra Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:07 pm
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby LucianK » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:23 am

There's some harsh words in the Romanian press about Alexandra do Nascimento. Some Romanian coach, whose name remained undisclosed, said that 'signing her was a big mistake for HCM and they should get rid of her in the summer, since she's worn-out and not good enough for Champions League'. They also argue that her salary is way too high for her performances.

I think there's already too much pressure put on this team and this kind of trash-talk won't help AT ALL. ](*,)


*Alexandra left this comment after the last game: 'I swear, today I tried so hard, but nothing went well, i apologise. But I need your support, from the people of Baia Mare. I really like to be in this city.'

**Then there's this video of Tiselj 'slapping' Gjeorgjievska to make her focus during the TO. There's a lot going on inside this team. :!:

User avatar
Silviu
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:36 am
Location: România/België
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Silviu » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:47 am

LucianK wrote: Some Romanian coach, whose name remained undisclosed [...]

According to the newspaper, he is "a great Romanian coach"... I wonder who that might be :lol:.
But yes, Tadici is right about do Nascimento.

mikh
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 2905
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:18 pm
Location: North of the Wall
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 86 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby mikh » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:00 pm

Seriously, do you really need to pay Priscilla a shit-load of money to do what she's doing? What I've seen against Gyor was the worse performance of a Romanian team in CL, ever! Thus, we're also seeing that the biggest problem there wasn't coach Buceschi.
This team has no soul. Baia Mare used to be a team nice to watch. Last year you could see the players leaving their heart out there match after match, but this year, besides a handful of them, the others are there just to cash in their check.

User avatar
Des57
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: Romania
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Des57 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:26 pm

Silviu wrote:
LucianK wrote: Some Romanian coach, whose name remained undisclosed [...]

According to the newspaper, he is "a great Romanian coach"... I wonder who that might be :lol:.
But yes, Tadici is right about do Nascimento.


Yes,he's right.As mikh said this team has no fighting spirit,many players are there only to cash their salaries.I think the problem is caused by the big number pf foreign players.You need to find the right balanced between Romanian top players and foreign ones and for now Baia Mare hasn't got it.

User avatar
HB9
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1441
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 163 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby HB9 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:33 pm

LucianK wrote:**Then there's this video of Tiselj 'slapping' Gjeorgjievska to make her focus during the TO.

Thanks for the video, I thought I was just imagining it when i saw it on Sunday. :o
idle banter.

User avatar
Adriyanos
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 855
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:16 pm
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Adriyanos » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:58 pm

mikh wrote:Seriously, do you really need to pay Priscilla a shit-load of money to do what she's doing?


Don't mean to defend her, but she has had her share of injuries, even in Baia Mare, she isn't 100%, that's clear. But Baia Mare knew what they were signing: a 33-year old player, with God knows how much hunger left, after winning the World Championship with Brazil.

mikh wrote:What I've seen against Gyor was the worse performance of a Romanian team in CL, ever! Thus, we're also seeing that the biggest problem there wasn't coach Buceschi.


Dunno if it was the worst performance ever, I can put up some Oltchim moments. But what you are saying after is what matters...

mikh wrote:This team has no soul. Baia Mare used to be a team nice to watch. Last year you could see the players leaving their heart out there match after match, but this year, besides a handful of them, the others are there just to cash in their check.


This team has no k**f leader! Oltchim had Neagu or Bulatovic. Or even Steluta Luca in defence. Gyor had Gorbicz. Even Vardar had Lekic last year and Radicevic will always bring some motivation into the team. Baia Mare has nothing! They used 2 million euros to bring a class "of above the line" players to justify the project. I don't buy the "bring Romanians and then foreign players" thing, as many of Baia Mare's fans rant about. Hell, they should be happy they have a team now and hope that the management pinpoints its mistakes and learn not to do them again!

But Baia Mare has made several mistakes in their approach. First of all, why on earth should you bring Gjorgjievska and pair her with Geiger? They are the same player style: the back who can win you a match with a perfect game, but usually finish the game with a grotesque-statsheet: 3 goals from 10 shots. Do Nascimento was a marquee signing, but she's old and they should've done their homework before, it was easy to learn about her. Herrem was a shot in the dark, as Nordic players have a tough time to adapt here, it's a lottery: either they bond with the coach and the other players, or not. I think that the only signings who have great potential and could develop here will be Makeeva and Abbingh. But none of them have won a top competition.

User avatar
Silviu
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:36 am
Location: România/België
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Silviu » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:04 pm

Des57 wrote:As mikh said this team has no fighting spirit [...]

I even wonder if this team would have qualified in the CL against Viborg, like the team who did it last year. That game was won with the hearts. Sadly, CSM Bucharest is trying to copy/paste Baia Mare. Or maybe viceversa...

User avatar
LucianK
Extra Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:07 pm
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby LucianK » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:22 pm

Silviu wrote:
Des57 wrote:As mikh said this team has no fighting spirit [...]

I even wonder if this team would have qualified in the CL against Viborg, like the team who did it last year. That game was won with the hearts. Sadly, CSM Bucharest is trying to copy/paste Baia Mare. Or maybe viceversa...


Right, because Baia Mare was the first team in the world to buy foreign players.

IMO, CSM's transfers are a bit more effective, there's a consistency in Torstenson's game (she delivers each time) that I haven't seen yet in any of BM's players. Rodrigues started the season great, lately she's out of shape, but she has shown that she can be great in CSM and she's a leader on court. Pessoa was great, with only 1 ore 2 bad matches. Cavaleiro (when not injuried) is heavily overshadowing Vizitiu and Zaremba. Da Silva is consistant as well, even though she's not yet as good as she was in Hypo and Carmen seems to be fighting herself over the injuries. Keep the same girls together 1 more year (with some small additions) and they'll become a team, that's for sure. Can the same be said about BM?

User avatar
Silviu
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:36 am
Location: România/België
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Silviu » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:43 pm

LucianK wrote:
Silviu wrote:Sadly, CSM Bucharest is trying to copy/paste Baia Mare. Or maybe viceversa...

Right, because Baia Mare was the first team in the world to buy foreign players.

Mea culpa, my post was confusing :). Since Adriyanos has mentioned Oltchim, I want to remind that Vâlcea has built its team step by step, over very long years, till it became a respected European club. I remember an interview with Pineau where she said: "I came here to learn and to improve myself". Every good club in Europe has followed that pattern: first build your team, learn and accumulate experience, make yourself a name in all European competitions, and only then try to be the best. Győr did it that way, and so did Viborg, Budućnost or Larvik. Of course, you can buy all foreign players on the market and get the trophy. Slagelse did it, but to what end?
OK, so what I wanted to say is, that CSM and HCM are copy/pasting themselves in the attempt to reach the top without any history, experience or tradition behind. Vardarlike.

Regarding CSM's transfers, I agree. With an exception: Martín. For me, she is CSM's do Nascimento. She played very good in Hungary & Croatia, but - I don't know why - she play constantly bad and very bad in Bucharest. There's something else: I have nothing, absolutely nothing against foreign players, but I am against a team consisting only of foreign players (da Silva-Torstenson-Rodrigues-Vetkova-Cavaleiro-Martín-Pessoa). Hopefully, Oana Manea will come back soon.

User avatar
Adriyanos
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 855
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:16 pm
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Adriyanos » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:13 pm

I think that the lesson that has to be learnt here is that you have to be humble. Boasting with your signings won't bring you anywhere, bar creating great expectations for fans. Dunno, it seems the blueprint for Bucharest is the same, but I trust their management more and it seems that Klit is more able to create a team that can achieve greatness. Having their target to organise the F4 in 2017 would help their cause also.

Regarding Baia Mare, Tiselj said two thingsin an interview for ProSport:

1. Gyor is the best organised team in Europe and managed this feat by having patience. We must get used to do this, but in such a crazy country, in which the money come and go as the big wigs please, this is impossible.

2. Baia Mare had a great deal of problems because the players could not communicate. I know for a fact that Do Nascimento did not know English until now and the Romanian players did not want to speak English. And that's a pity, because such a cocktail of cultures can't yield results if there isn't common ground.

User avatar
HB9
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1441
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:01 pm
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 163 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby HB9 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:32 pm

idle banter.

Alaur97
Regular
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:09 pm

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Alaur97 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:52 pm



The city hall of Baia Mare had axed from the budget for handbal in 2015.

User avatar
heavenly
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 986
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:24 pm
Location: France
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby heavenly » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:01 pm

Google Translate said: HCM Baia Mare will received only 2 millions in 2015 (60% less
compared in 2014). I always think that many Romanian clubs are too much dependent on
the local authorities.

That's not a good economical model at all !

User avatar
Silviu
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:36 am
Location: România/België
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Silviu » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:09 pm

@heavenly: no, absolutely, it's not a good model, but without it our handball would be dead.

So who is gonna leave next season? Herrem? Do Nascimento?

mikh
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 2905
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:18 pm
Location: North of the Wall
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 86 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby mikh » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:21 pm

heavenly wrote:Google Translate said: HCM Baia Mare will received only 2 millions in 2015 (60% less
compared in 2014). I always think that many Romanian clubs are too much dependent on
the local authorities.

That's not a good economical model at all !


Your comments and all the discussion we had lately about Romanian teams made me think of one thing. We're talking about players, recruitment, investment and so on, but I think we're essentially failing to pinpoint one of the main factors: we do not have sports managers!

All these clubs are led by amateurs who overnight, woke up with the label of "manager of team X". We're in an era of professional sports; handball is a sport that has problems generating revenue as it is; women handball in general is just a story of surviving the season. Unless you get the right people to lead a club (managers, accountants, marketing, PR etc.) you are going to fail sooner or later, especially when your ambitions don't match your capabilities. Let's face it, one of the reasons Oltchim was doomed was the ridiculous management of the Roibu - Berbecaru - Luca triad and the bad salary / recruiting policy. It was this delirium of power alimented by semi-public money for which nobody claimed any responsibility.
Baia Mare seems to be more or less the toy of a moody mayor and his council and in absence of any serious private investment will soon fail. It's not a matter of "if", it's just a matter of "when".
Same goes for Bucharest. As soon as the controversial mayor of the city will lose his political support, we know what will happen to him and to his "project". As for that Caliman guy, he's just embarrassing himself every time he's opening his mouth, seeing only plots to stop the unattained glory of "his" club.

Notorious examples can continue with male handball and the lack of support on HCM Constanta, since their protector (he wasn't really an investor) is now wanted by the authorities and has fled the country.
The worse is that all these characters are "leading" clubs and creating a public image for themselves using public money. When something fails, everyone disappears and nobody's left to take responsibility.

And the examples can carry on in volleyball, basketball, rugby and especially football. This is the Romanian-trademark business model in sport management.
Last edited by mikh on Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Des57
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: Romania
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Des57 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:49 pm

Silviu wrote:@heavenly:
So who is gonna leave next season? Herrem?


Prosport:Talks between Herrem and Viborg.I have my doubts about it.
http://www.prosport.ro/alte-sporturi/ha ... i-13815287

User avatar
gergő
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:46 pm
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby gergő » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:57 pm

yeah it was logical to signed herrem as an lw sub. :)
honestly dunno what did they thinking after brasov, oltchim.
pick an - sorry - average club in the international context, filled up with tons of money, signed a lot of "world class" but expensive players and set the goal to win the cl within 2 years.. there will never be a good end. never.
guess preparing to csm bucharest.

User avatar
Joana
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 2104
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:26 am
Location: Serbia
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Joana » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:08 pm

gergő wrote:pick an - sorry - average club in the international context, filled up with tons of money, signed a lot of "world class" but expensive players and set the goal to win the cl within 2 years.. there will never be a good end. never.


The only ones who made it work were Slagelse and seems like everyone else is trying to copy their model since. But it's impossible nowadays. Firstly, the economic situation back then was much better than it is now. Secondly, it was the golden age of women's handball in Denmark with huge media interest. And perhaps most importantly, much of it was built around the personality of Anja Andersen, who had an unbelievable amount of star power back then.
None of those things still stand now.
Women's World Volleyball Championship
20.10.2018, Yokohama (JPN)
1. Serbia 2. Italy 3. China
The history is made. Thank you, girls!

User avatar
John
:::Handball Expert:::
Posts: 1492
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 pm
Been thanked: 116 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby John » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:51 pm

heavenly wrote:HCM Baia Mare will received only 2 millions in 2015


But it's 2 million lei not 2 million euros, so if you convert 2 million lei to euros it's like 449,841 euro.

User avatar
heavenly
Handball Fan-atic
Posts: 986
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:24 pm
Location: France
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby heavenly » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:07 pm

Yes of course, it was in Romanian money. So in 2014, HCM received more than
1,3 millions Euros from the municipality. That's a big cut in 2015 !

Alaur97
Regular
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:09 pm

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Alaur97 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:15 pm

heavenly wrote:Yes of course, it was in Romanian money. So in 2014, HCM received more than
1,3 millions Euros from the municipality. That's a big cut in 2015 !


Let the investitors come!

User avatar
Anicia Juliana
Extra Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 3:56 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Anicia Juliana » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:16 pm

It seems that nowadays high level women clubs are all sustained artificially. They're like those humans in the Matrix, living their "normal life", while in reality they are plugged to a dream-machine.

It applies to all the top clubs:
- Viborg, Krim, Hypo - still in the game but hardly competitive
- Oltchim, Itxako - gone and burried. 5 years from now we will have burried Vardar, Baia Mare and CSM Bucuresti.
- Buducnost - sponsored by big mogul (Pedrag Boskovic - mines business I believe, basicly making money out ou MNE's natural ressources) correct me if I'm wrong
- Gyor - breathing through the Audi factory, do not know the details
- Larvik - clearly not doing well on sponsorship

Meanwhile, some championships like Germany's or France's chose healthy management over dream teams. Hell, France even has controls to prevent splurge (remember the Arvor affair) They will produce interesting teams, but let's face it, Metz or Leipzig will never win the CL with their current recruitment policy.

Top Women's handball is simply an unsustainable business. And it is an interesting topic - sports management is an issue, like mikh says, but how to go about handball, where a trophy is not followed by big money? It's the riddle of the sphinx.
Last edited by Anicia Juliana on Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
John
:::Handball Expert:::
Posts: 1492
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 pm
Been thanked: 116 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby John » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:09 pm

Anicia Juliana wrote:Buducnost - sponsored by big mogul (Pedrag Boskovic - mines business I believe, basicly making money out ou MNE's natural ressources) correct me if I'm wrong


You are, he doesn't own the mine, and the mine is not their sponsor for 2 years now. Their main sponsor is Montenegrin touristic organization.
But Buducnost, Larvik and Gyor and handball teams with tradition, and i don't see these clubs buying players like crazy, 2 or 3 top players for each position and giving them a lot of money. It's irrational spending that makes these teams dissappear. I don't know about Gyor or Larvik, but Buducnost is not willing to pay irrational amount of money for some player or give them irrationally big salary, which they proved many times by letting the best players go if they want more.

User avatar
Anicia Juliana
Extra Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 3:56 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Talk about HCM Baia Mare

Postby Anicia Juliana » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:21 pm

But John, didn't Bojana get 400.000 euros + a year in Budu, so a total of over 800.000 in two years? I am sure some of you Montenegrins must think that sum is insane. I know I do.

And just to reassure you, because I know what you are going to say, I love Bojana, she's my all time hero and all. But I'm just looking at the bigger picture. Boskovic was more than willing to splurge in the search for GLORY. Fortunately, he hit the jackpot. MNE is a big handball power now thanks to Boskovic getting her that money. Had Oltchim got Bojana, they would have won CL ... It's all about the money and who can pay more.
Image


Return to “Female Handball”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests