2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Doru Delavale » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:14 pm

heavenly wrote:
dutchfan wrote:Mayonaise did that and that resulted in Laura van der Heijden took the shot (and scored), while i personally thought that Polman or Abbingh would try.


How could you mix up the sauce Mayonnaise with your great French coach Mayonnade ? [-X :D
By the way, bravo NED for the first gold of your history ! =D>


I thought nobody will notice that and thereby shade the joy of a dutch fan... but thanks to God , it was,at least, someone from "Heaven" ! :lol:



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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Wbk » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:40 am

Very "sober", well-taken (as usual) John Ryan's opinion to end the discussions about the ending of the final:

http://teamhandballnews.com/2019/12/the ... s-chances/
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Doru Delavale » Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:05 pm

Wbk wrote:Very "sober", well-taken (as usual) John Ryan's opinion to end the discussions about the ending of the final:

http://teamhandballnews.com/2019/12/the ... s-chances/



I propose a much less-head-ache rule...the team which is on atack (on last 30 sec) to execute directly a 7m penalty ... :-$

or at least,to rope the hands and the legs of the players who tried to defends last 30 sec....

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby swarthofole » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:38 pm

Wbk wrote:Very "sober", well-taken (as usual) John Ryan's opinion to end the discussions about the ending of the final:

http://teamhandballnews.com/2019/12/the ... s-chances/

imho there's two sides of the coin here:

1. is this an easy one? no, it's pretty obvious it isn't and that screenshot really proves nothing because the player is jumping and the optical illusion won't allow us to have a proper judgement on this. so one could accept the decision of the refs as is.
2. I am pretty sure that nobody could see this in real time and be 100% sure the ball is stopped by pivot before leaving the 6m area. so why should we accept the crappy decision in that very important moment of the game and why did they call it if it's not obvious they are right?? why interfering in such manner in such an important game and almost pointing the winner? maybe the Dutch fans will reply to me and say if they agree or not, but I think nobody from their side would have had any complaint about the decision if not being called.

It's a pity the Bonaventuras always look for the spotlight and they often forget they should be invisible.
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby dutchfan » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:11 pm

swarthofole wrote:
Wbk wrote:Very "sober", well-taken (as usual) John Ryan's opinion to end the discussions about the ending of the final:

http://teamhandballnews.com/2019/12/the ... s-chances/

imho there's two sides of the coin here:

1. is this an easy one? no, it's pretty obvious it isn't and that screenshot really proves nothing because the player is jumping and the optical illusion won't allow us to have a proper judgement on this. so one could accept the decision of the refs as is.
2. I am pretty sure that nobody could see this in real time and be 100% sure the ball is stopped by pivot before leaving the 6m area. so why should we accept the crappy decision in that very important moment of the game and why did they call it if it's not obvious they are right?? why interfering in such manner in such an important game and almost pointing the winner? maybe the Dutch fans will reply to me and say if they agree or not, but I think nobody from their side would have had any complaint about the decision if not being called.

It's a pity the Bonaventuras always look for the spotlight and they often forget they should be invisible.

I get your frustration, there should have been a VAR to clear all the confusion and to make clear if the Bonaventuras were right or not. One of the reffs seems to have a good view, but if there was a VAR then there would be no question about it. In my opinion that it is in the last and important part of the match is not important. If it was earlier in the match it should have been 2 minutes if it was a clear one for the reffs. In such an important fase where it can decide the match a reff should have the option to watch a replay. I think it's a shame that there was no VAR available this tournament. I don't think that the sisters did it to be in the spotlight and that they just tried their best. I don't think they purposefully tried to decide the result and did it to be in the spotlight. The ihf made the mistake for not having a VAR available and not the reffs' mistake for trying to enforce the rules. Maybe I believe to much in the good side of people, but I really don't think they wanted to end a match like this just for the drama

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby swarthofole » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:07 pm

if there's no clean shot, you don' take it. and that's that.
but they chose to do it based on nothing more than a hunch. by the way, the perfect spot would be 6m away from the post on an imaginary parallel line and that's not the case.
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby dutchfan » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:31 pm

It's not about there being a clean shot, it's about a rule. You can disagree with the rule (which i can understand) or that you think there should be a VAR in cases like this (what I totally agree with), but you cannot blame the keeper for taking that shot or the reff who clearly believes she saw it right. The only way to prevent this is to change the rule or have a VAR available.

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby swarthofole » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:07 pm

if there's no clean shot, you don' take it = if you are not sure about it, you don't have to take a decision.
so it was not about Wester, it was about the Bonaventura.
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby dutchfan » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:15 pm

swarthofole wrote:if there's no clean shot, you don' take it = if you are not sure about it, you don't have to take a decision.
so it was not about Wester, it was about the Bonaventura.

Ah okay, I misunderstood you there, sorry. On that part I refer to my earlier comment about the reffs and the need of a var ;)

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby meteo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:44 am

swarthofole wrote:if there's no clean shot, you don' take it. and that's that.
but they chose to do it based on nothing more than a hunch. by the way, the perfect spot would be 6m away from the post on an imaginary parallel line and that's not the case.


Okay, Julie Bonaventura was only 5 Meters away from the post and she was looking towards the situation directly - no one had a better position to judge it. Can we agree on that?

Her pespective would be even "pro spanish", so it would be more likely that she wouldn't have whistled if she was insecure. But she wasn't, because the situation is more or less clear that the ball could not have left the goal area completely...

It's very crazy that we are talking about a situation that was most likely correctly decided and we don't talk about the crazy too early shot of Barbosa that lead to this situation...
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby meteo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:47 am

swarthofole wrote:
It's a pity the Bonaventuras always look for the spotlight and they often forget they should be invisible.


Well - if you don't have the courage to whistle such a situation in a deciding phase of the game, than you will never be a referee on that top level! Again - the faults were made by Spain and no one else... Also Netherlands made a fault before with the passive play without shooting to spanish goal...
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby swarthofole » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:51 pm

from courage to madness it's a thin red line. I think they've crossed it multiple times now.
and of course it's better to have everything in control, but that's not always possible. so I can't blame ESP for not having +10 before that or NED for not having +5.

PS: I don't think NED got this title undeserved, this is out of question.
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby dutchfan » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:38 pm

How about we all agree to disagree on the reff part? :lol:

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Mr. 007 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:17 pm

I'm sorry. Boneventuras used the stopping inside 6 m rule, and I have seen that incident from 2 angles. The ball was not stopped inside of 6 m. at all, but outside... And TV3 had some really good footage of this... and thinking that such a decision should be crystal clear...tsk tsk...when not happening at all...scandal!

IMO we got no winner of Wch... Think Spain was closer than Netherlands to win it tbh, and we were cheated from extra time to get a real winner.

Time to change the rules to avoid this s**t to happen again. Netherlands were appointed the victory by the refs, like it was a match fixing. It's not ok at all- for betting sites, everybody really. This is a shame. Spain should probably have become the new WC champions as the game developed, as this was so pure "luck" out of nowhere...

Netherlands are not real world champions...I think Spain was actually. How about changing the rules so we don't get anymore of this crap in the future, and let the teams decide it on the court instead? Like real handball for a change?

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Gojira » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:15 pm

You are mistaken. We have a world champion. Try to live with it.

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Scheersberg » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:31 pm

For all the fans of the Dutch Handball team, the more than deserved World Champion!

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For those who do not know and/or understand some basic handball rules (or are a little frustrated :lol: ):

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby swarthofole » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:14 am

it seems the Bonaventuras were enforcing another rule here :lol: :

https://www.ffhandball.fr/fr/articles/a ... onaventura

so maybe they can't decide which is which. :lol:
about the rule you mentioned @Scheersberg, maybe it's the most stupid one in handball, and yeah, not everybody here is a handball expert :lol: .
of course if they'd invoke that one, I'd comply, but I'd totally disagree with such a stupidity.
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby meteo » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:10 am

Mr. 007 wrote:I'm sorry. Boneventuras used the stopping inside 6 m rule, and I have seen that incident from 2 angles. The ball was not stopped inside of 6 m. at all, but outside... And TV3 had some really good footage of this... and thinking that such a decision should be crystal clear...tsk tsk...when not happening at all...scandal!

IMO we got no winner of Wch... Think Spain was closer than Netherlands to win it tbh, and we were cheated from extra time to get a real winner.

Time to change the rules to avoid this s**t to happen again. Netherlands were appointed the victory by the refs, like it was a match fixing. It's not ok at all- for betting sites, everybody really. This is a shame. Spain should probably have become the new WC champions as the game developed, as this was so pure "luck" out of nowhere...

Netherlands are not real world champions...I think Spain was actually. How about changing the rules so we don't get anymore of this crap in the future, and let the teams decide it on the court instead? Like real handball for a change?



Up to now I don't saw any footage that showed a proof that she blocks outside AND that the ball was already outside. Every screenshot and every I could see so far suggests very clear that the ball has not left the goal area completely.

It is not decisive where Hernandez stands and where she blocks (even ihr already there some Screenshot suggests that her body [mostly her arms] was partially within the goal area) - it is decisive if the ball is in play. And the ball is in play if it has left the goal area completely (!). That could never has happened if you look how close Hernandez stands "outside" the area.

Read the rules 12, 15 and 8 and understand them correct. Every single referee of top level that I talked about this agrees on this decision.
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Doru Delavale » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:03 pm

What was done, was done....Holland is now W Ch ...May be on right, but the referees didn't let us to feel this fairly.
But let's be serious...
" IF the player is standing less than 3 metres the thrower..."[and what if stays on 3,20 ? and we have no VAR decision ? and referees decided it was 2,90 ?]
"If the player standing too close...." [how much close ? 55cm....80cm...135 cm...?] My men, this is insanity...this is not a solution for the future competitions...
Last edited by Doru Delavale on Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Doru Delavale » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:09 pm

Gojira wrote:You are mistaken. We have a world champion. Try to live with it.


This,and here-discussion, is not about it was but about will be...should be.

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Germanicus » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:11 pm

Mr. 007 wrote:I'm sorry. Boneventuras used the stopping inside 6 m rule, and I have seen that incident from 2 angles. The ball was not stopped inside of 6 m. at all, but outside... And TV3 had some really good footage of this... and thinking that such a decision should be crystal clear...tsk tsk...when not happening at all...scandal!

I'm 100% sure the ball was not outside, and I'm 100% sure, the referee, who had the perfect angle, saw crystal clear that the ball was not outside. So I see no scandal, but a perfect decision. Period.
In conclusion, I declare that EHF must be destroyed

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Doru Delavale » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:18 pm

Germanicus wrote:
Mr. 007 wrote:I'm sorry. Boneventuras used the stopping inside 6 m rule, and I have seen that incident from 2 angles. The ball was not stopped inside of 6 m. at all, but outside... And TV3 had some really good footage of this... and thinking that such a decision should be crystal clear...tsk tsk...when not happening at all...scandal!

I'm 100% sure the ball was not outside, and I'm 100% sure, the referee, who had the perfect angle, saw crystal clear that the ball was not outside. So I see no scandal, but a perfect decision. Period.


....a " perfect " <<decision>> based on idiotic rule... \:D/

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Wbk » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:31 am

Doru Delavale wrote:....a " perfect " <<decision>> based on idiotic rule... \:D/

Based on your posts here, I can really see you not getting the point of the last 30 seconds rule. So please take some effort to learn it before standardly blahblahing who all are the idiots around you (the ideal person) #-o
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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Doru Delavale » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm

Wbk wrote:
Doru Delavale wrote:....a " perfect " <<decision>> based on idiotic rule... \:D/

Based on your posts here, I can really see you not getting the point of the last 30 seconds rule. So please take some effort to learn it before standardly blahblahing who all are the idiots around you (the ideal person) #-o


I think you're gone too far...why do you force me to adopt your point of view ?
Austrian Emperor Joseph II was full of good intentions but this didn't save his policy of many,many errors...to be gentle in expression...and Gorbaciov ,the same....I understood what was preliminary the task of these last 30 sec rule...but...practice is a little bit different from theory.

....and PS: I can asure you I'm not imagining myself like an ideal person,I'm too humouros for that kind of selfperception. :lol:

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Re: 2019 Women's WCh (Japan)

Postby Wbk » Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:33 pm

Doru Delavale wrote:
Wbk wrote:
Doru Delavale wrote:....a " perfect " <<decision>> based on idiotic rule... \:D/

Based on your posts here, I can really see you not getting the point of the last 30 seconds rule. So please take some effort to learn it before standardly blahblahing who all are the idiots around you (the ideal person) #-o


I think you're gone too far...why do you force me to adopt your point of view ?
Austrian Emperor Joseph II was full of good intentions but this didn't save his policy of many,many errors...to be gentle in expression...and Gorbaciov ,the same....I understood what was preliminary the task of these last 30 sec rule...but...practice is a little bit different from theory.

....and PS: I can asure you I'm not imagining myself like an ideal person,I'm too humouros for that kind of selfperception. :lol:

Stop your figurative outgos, please. It's not about your or my or anyone's point of view. It's about the truth, which is the only, elementary and objective. In this case, supported by the existing rules of the game. If you can't live with that and you can't accept what's given, it is you who have a problem. Realising what stands in the rules, even the Spanish team alone accepted the decision by not filling a post-match appeal or so. Moreover, they knew it (that they failed) already on the field.

You should know the primary point is to decide handball matches in a natural way, i.e. with true handball actions (attacks) until the very end, even during the very last, dying seconds of the match. And not with some "artificial", seemingly and actually speculative actions which prevent opponent to score a natural goal.
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